Does anyone have any ideas on the age or history of this one? (rightmost)
The only markings on it are "W. GREAVES & SONS".
Attachment 21695
Printable View
Does anyone have any ideas on the age or history of this one? (rightmost)
The only markings on it are "W. GREAVES & SONS".
Attachment 21695
Sticky
Judging from the abbreviated tail and straight scales, I'd say sometime around 1840. The Greaves family founded England's first commercial foundry, the Sheaf Works, in Sheffield in the late 18th cen.
"W. Greaves and Sons" was the name the company bore through most of the early 19th century.
Goshawk
They are great shavers, too! I have one out for restoration work right now. Can't wait to see her all gussied up!
The tang is a dead giveaway that it is really an older blade. What are the chances that those are the original scales?
X
A bit more to add to what Goshawk said:
Started by William Greaves in Sheffield in 1780. His sons joined the company in 1816 to make it William Greaves & Sons. The Sheath Works building (factory) was started in 1823 and finished in 1826. The company was sold to B J Eyre & Company in 1850, but they may have continued to use the Greaves markings for a time.
Regards,
Neil.
I'm guessing that the scales are original. If they are replacements then I think it was done a long time ago since the pin is steel. It isn't scientific, but when I filed the pin off it "smelled" the same as when hand-sanding the blade. I need to get my basement shop's ventilation in place before I get it fully restored.
The scales are one piece and it looks like one or more of the previous owners rubbed linseed oil on it regularly. They seem to still be quite solid and I think I'm going to reinstall them after making sure the inside surfaces are well sealed. The balance with the original scales is excellent.
Did someone say Greaves ? Here's one of mine . Attachment 21730
Says... W. Greaves & Sons Cast Steel
One of my very best shavers. The steel feels a bit harder than other Sheffield razors i have... Don't know if its reground but the edge is VERY thin. Seems odd for what otherwise looks like an earlyish 19th century razor.:thinking:
Bill....
A restored Wm. Greaves & Sons with eagle etching and spine tooling. 15/16" width. Original horn scales replaced with black horn scales.
Attachment 277955
I think this is a regrind from a near wedge because of that stub tail.
Slawman
I take back what I said about a regrind.
If you were talking about the razor the op posted in 2009, yes it's reground, and likely the bottom of the tang is reshaped. The restored Greaves "American Razor" is not reground, and such a nice deep original Eagle Etch and Slogan in the scallops of the spine, lovely!
Not sure I can teach anyone anything but here are a few thoughts. In my opinion the best place to start is looking at a LOT of razors, compare them in terms of what you most commonly see vs unusual findings for similar/dissimilar marked and/or shaped blades. read what others have said regarding those blades, shapes, grinds from the particular timeframe for each blade in question (Not everything written here is accurate and many times newer findings clarified earlier inaccuracies or misunderstandings so diligence is required when sifting through old posts here). I've been somewhat prone to jumping the gun myself and have inserted a foot or two into a wide open mouth :fim:
I personally Also look for obvious and blatant differences in surface texture, often regarding tangs and blade faces this can be more readily observed in person than in pics so I purchase an insane amount of blades just to examine sometimes. The level of Oxidation and the pattern it presents in are sometimes telling on more well executed regrinds. Traces of a blade etch under obvious grind lines are a dead giveaway.....
well, I guess after writing this far it will best to post pics for illustration purposes. I'll post a few pics later on.......
read this thread:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...revisited.html
Then some examples of what the op's Greaves may have looked akin to:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...blade-now.html
http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...lack-horn.html
Regrinds have historical backing and can be beneficial in some cases but discretion again needs to applied here, since it certainly could erase some historical significance doing a regrind and details of a blades origin can be lost. Abating the spread of oxidation, evening up hone wear, making honing an easier task, correcting a fault in a blade. These have all been used as reasons for regrinding.
As seen in some of my pics here a regrind does not always mean hollow grinding a blade either. This is the far more attractive option to someone like me when a regrind is decided upon. If a blade is a near wedge when I commence a regrind it remains a near wedge when I've finished the regrind. As little surface metal removed as possible is my general rule.
p.s, the top pic shows some regrinds along with some hat are obviously hollow ground intentionally, and etched.
Some with obvious signs of light regrinding. look at the junctions between blade and tangs, and notice some have a partial etch on the blade under slightly more course grind lines than the rest of the blade faces. Uneven regrind on reverse of a couple blades, difference in how oxidation presents and how light reflects off the different surfaces.
Attachment 278543Attachment 278544Attachment 278545Attachment 278546Attachment 278547Attachment 278548
And here is a Clark & Osborn dating from 1822-30 (G crown R), perhaps a decade later or maybe contemporary to the op's Greaves, but shows similar shape anyhow. It shows the tang reshaped as I mentioned.Attachment 278550Attachment 278551Attachment 278552 Compare this to the razors in the linked threads I posted earlier
I'm not sure if this is a stub tail even though it looks pretty short, but that's due to how long this blade is - 3.5 inches about and it scares me to shave with it.
Attachment 278557
It's also worth noting though that it was very common for the blade face and the tang to have different surface treatments.
Most that did that used a satin finish (or glaze) on the tang and a mirror (or crocus, named for the type of polish used -- iron oxide powder which strongly resembles the pollen in a crocus flower) on the blade face. John Barber seems to have been one of the few who did the reverse.
And another odd tidbit -- GR stamps were actually, rarely, used before George IV (Jul 19th 1821 to June 26th 1829). There's a machete with that stamp on it in the 1813 Smith's Key. It was also used during George V's reign (1910-1936), you're most likely to run into that with John Weiss razors. The 287 Oxford St. address is the key -- they didn't move there until late in the Victorian era. During George IV's time, they were on the Strand.
"Glazed Tang mwamwamwa" (said in a Homer Simpson voice) :pAttachment 278589Attachment 278590Attachment 278591
Indeed, and again in person examination is invaluable here. It's not always as straight forward as I described as Voidmonster pointed out.
first two pics show a razor in the manner described, glazed tang, crocus finish on the blade faces, though perhaps hard to tell from these pics and the level of oxidation. third pic shows a regrind, and not a blade done in the described manner. his third blade is a good example of what I was referring to, but again hard to see accurately in pics. See the differences between the two blades? (if the blade in third pic were brought to a simulated crocus finish it'd be harder or impossible to detect it being a regrind. This is the result I would say is a successful regrind, when it retains as close to it's original degree of hollow and blade surface looks legit)
Attachment 279322
Attachment 279323
MMMMMM, I love a good Greaves. Picked this one up for 10 bucks. It was so rusted and dirty I couldn't even tell it was a Greaves, just that it was a nicely shaped Sheffield wedge. Cleaned it up and got pretty lucky.
Thanks man. Took forever sanding by hand. I was gonna have a friend make some new honey horn scales, but I just hated to ditch the originals, so I lightly sanded and polished, repined, and I think it turned out pretty good too... Cant wait to get my hands on another Greaves now though.
No I didn't, but I am still pretty new to restorations, especially scale restoration. Is that the best way to seal those little nicks back up?
Not exactly certain if it's the best way, but some folks do fashion scales using CA.
Interestingly, in a Keith Johnson restoration video, he shows how to make a preparation called "Hornoxy" which is epoxy mixed with the shavings from the scales you are restoring! Very clever. It's at 1:50 in this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zghE...ature=youtu.be
Man that is an awesome video. Thanks for the share brother.