Goldedge Stiffness

How stiff is a Dubl Duck GoldEdge supposed to be? I recently got a 6/8 roundpoint one, and I like it, but it isn't that heavy and doesn't intimidate my whiskers like I expected, and so far hasn't been as sharp as my cmon HF, Puma, 5/8 Friodur, T Hessen Bruch and others. Still trying differing honing tricks, but I thought this would be beast. My CMON HF on the other hand, right off a coticule, is a hungry stiff mean monster and sends my hairs fleeing like hyperventilating school girls running out of a horror movie. Are dubl ducks just not that tough?

My Goldedge is a full hollow and I can feel the blade flex on my tender cheek. Gives a good shave though.

I had the same experience with my Ducks-delicate and sharp, but not enough sweeping power to hoe through my buffalo grass stubble. Don't shave with them anymore.

Ducks are generally full hollow from what I have seen. You might have been thinking of a satin wedge. Those are wedges. Hollows just aren't as "tough" as a thicker grind.

I've got plenty of wedges, full hollows and grinds in between. I was just surprised at how unstiff the duck is. I have a puma 5/8 full hollow that carves through my beard better than anything, and likewise with my full hollow 5/8 friodur. The duck just seems kind of limp - it shaves fine, I just have to do more work with it than with my stiffer razors. But some razors have a stiffer feel than others, I just didn't realize ducks were on the unstiff side of the spectrum. But the responses have confirmed I'm not crazy so that's good.

Well,

I have a minty Wonderedge 6/8 (almost 7/8) that shaves better than my stamped wapi and a 6/8 W&B wedge that I have. I used to prefer the wedges, but now I am reaching for the full hollows more and more.

The hollows require a tighter grip for me, but in the end they give me a lot more comfortable shave.
:shrug:

What I need to do is more research!
:rock:


-Rob

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Originally Posted by sicboater

Well,

I have a minty Wonderedge 6/8 (almost 7/8) that shaves better than my stamped wapi and a 6/8 W&B wedge that I have. I used to prefer the wedges, but now I am reaching for the full hollows more and more.

The hollows require a tighter grip for me, but in the end they give me a lot more comfortable shave.
:shrug:

What I need to do is more research!
:rock:


-Rob

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I hear ya. I actually prefer full hollows myself, but the stiffer ones. My current two favorites are my 5/8 hollow puma and my 5/8 hollow friodur. Very maneuverable and they carve the hair right off. My duck is just a little wimpy in comparison to its brother hollows I fear.

Oh the agony!

If I made up a list of old barbers tales probably the top one on my list would be the old "well my beard is like steel wool and no wimpy full hollow could ever give me a decent shave" With all due respect to all the guys who feel this way I would only say that if that is the case either your razor needs honing or your technique does. Now if you prefer a wedge or part hollow thats a different story.

Oh back to the post. I have probably all the razors mentioned C-Mon HF, Puma and a real gaggle of ducks and the ducks pretty much all shave with the best of them, maybe even better.(and I don't have peach fuzz for a beard)

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Originally Posted by loueedacat

I've got plenty of wedges, full hollows and grinds in between. I was just surprised at how unstiff the duck is. I have a puma 5/8 full hollow that carves through my beard better than anything, and likewise with my full hollow 5/8 friodur. The duck just seems kind of limp - it shaves fine, I just have to do more work with it than with my stiffer razors. But some razors have a stiffer feel than others, I just didn't realize ducks were on the unstiff side of the spectrum. But the responses have confirmed I'm not crazy so that's good.

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Hmm... I think it might be that razor. I don't recall the duck being "flexible" it was pretty stiff. Stiffer than my extra hollows and just as stiff as any other hollow I've shaved with. Not an axe like a wedge of course, but it felt..."normal." :shrug: Shaved with 3 ducks so far.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Oh the agony!

If I made up a list of old barbers tales probably the top one on my list would be the old "well my beard is like steel wool and no wimpy full hollow could ever give me a decent shave" With all due respect to all the guys who feel this way I would only say that if that is the case either your razor needs honing or your technique does. Now if you prefer a wedge or part hollow thats a different story.

Oh back to the post. I have probably all the razors mentioned C-Mon HF, Puma and a real gaggle of ducks and the ducks pretty much all shave with the best of them, maybe even better.(and I don't have peach fuzz for a beard)

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A-my issue isn't with full hollows generally, just the duck - most of my favorites are full hollows.
B-even if your duck shaves with the best of them (I think mine shaves real nice too, it's just not as good as others), is it as stiff as the best of them?

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Originally Posted by Leighton

Hmm... I think it might be that razor. I don't recall the duck being "flexible" it was pretty stiff. Stiffer than my extra hollows and just as stiff as any other hollow I've shaved with. Not an axe like a wedge of course, but it felt..."normal." :shrug: Shaved with 3 ducks so far.

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thanks. that's exactly what I was asking. some have said their ducks are kind of limp too (either in this thread or by PM), but I suspected it's at least possible that it might be a razor specific issue, and I might have more luck with a different duck [no I'm not letting that trigger my RAD].

If you have a "typical" Double Hollow Grind say 5/8s they will all be pretty much equally flexible. That characteristic of flexibility goes with the grind. Once you go to a 6/8s or some extra heavy 5/8s I've seen, the extra weight of the blade and increased thickness of the spine will make it seem less flexible. As you go to less hollow grinds that flexibility is lost and of course with a true wedge its just a chunk of iron. 1/2 and 1/4 hollows will shave very similar to a wedge.

Pretty much all my full hollow ducks really have the same flexibility. Some of the older ones which aren't quite as hollow seem a little stiffer and of course the Satin Wedge is really stiff but its not a true wedge. There are really few true wedges out there. You really have to look for them.The true wedges I've seen are your big English meat choppers.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

If you have a "typical" Double Hollow Grind say 5/8s they will all be pretty much equally flexible. That characteristic of flexibility goes with the grind. Once you go to a 6/8s or some extra heavy 5/8s I've seen, the extra weight of the blade and increased thickness of the spine will make it seem less flexible. As you go to less hollow grinds that flexibility is lost and of course with a true wedge its just a chunk of iron. 1/2 and 1/4 hollows will shave very similar to a wedge.

Pretty much all my full hollow ducks really have the same flexibility. Some of the older ones which aren't quite as hollow seem a little stiffer and of course the Satin Wedge is really stiff but its not a true wedge. There are really few true wedges out there. You really have to look for them.The true wedges I've seen are your big English meat choppers.

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I know what you mean. I bought a "true" W&B wedge from Philotrix - it's, as he put it, as non-concave as you can get.

But what are your thoughts on this. I am convinced my robeson razor steel is stiffer than a comparable solingen. Ditto my filly. And my friodur 5/8 hollow is very stiff. Ie aren't there some steels, even if the grind were exactly the same, that are just harder and stiffer than others?

Go to this post here ........ check out the photo and then re-read the whole thread to get the context. It may :shrug: have something to do with why your particular Duck is a bit more flexible then some of your other full hollows. Then again maybe not. :D

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Oh the agony!

If I made up a list of old barbers tales probably the top one on my list would be the old "well my beard is like steel wool and no wimpy full hollow could ever give me a decent shave" With all due respect to all the guys who feel this way I would only say that if that is the case either your razor needs honing or your technique does. Now if you prefer a wedge or part hollow thats a different story.

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+1. My theory is this. Full hollow vs non-full hollow or flexible vs. stiff (I'll call them hollows and wedges). Both are capable of delivering excellent shaves using good technique. It's that hollows are less "tolerant" of less than good technique than wedges. Using mediocre technique, a wedge provides more of a margin within which you can still achieve an acceptable shave. I think good technique is required to get an excellent shave with either one. As you move away from good technique (shave angle, pressure, skin stretching, whatever) both will give good shaves. At some point the wedge will still give a good shave where the hollow will give a poor shave. For example I have a Kinfolks wedge and a Dovo B.L. Both give excellent shaves. I shave around a beard. At the edges I come in at an extreme angle and sort of scrape away from the beard line until I can get back to a good angle. I find this much easier to do with a wedge/stiff blade than with the B.L. The B.L. will catch, dig in, flex, etc. I can still do it but it's more difficult. So I think you can get away with being a bit sloppier with a stiffer blade. The difference in feel and feedback between the two is significant and I enjoy both. That's why we have a rotation right?

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Originally Posted by Quick

That's why we have a rotation right?

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that's but one of MANY reasons we have a rotation! :D

My theory has always been they are all easy to shave with, the hard part is honing them correctly, and for me hollows are easier to hone that wedges, ergo for me wedges are less tolerant(but only becasue they are less easy to hone). When I get any of them right, I actually find them all pretty easy to use. But they are totally different and fun and ..... oh I need some more dangit.

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Originally Posted by loueedacat

is it as stiff as the best of them?

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Do I hear Wonderedge, Louee? ;)

Seriously, though, I have had 2 (5/8) GE's and they shave with the best of my razors.

I would think with todays metal fabrication you could come up with an alloy that could be ground to full hollow and it would have the stiffness of a wedge however why would you want to do that and what would be the advantage. It might be almost impossible to hone.

I think with the typical razor steels we use today and historically, there should be little or no difference in the flexibility with equal grind, size and weight of razor. Or at least thats my experience and I have quite a few razors, mostly full hollow grinds.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I would think with todays metal fabrication you could come up with an alloy that could be ground to full hollow and it would have the stiffness of a wedge however why would you want to do that and what would be the advantage. It might be almost impossible to hone.

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I believe that the flexibility is a (if not the) *desired attribute* that can only be achieved with a full hollow.

My 6/8th Wonderedge is a more petite razor than my 6/8ths Puma Gold. The Wonderedge provides a bit more feedback than the Puma, but they both are equal in shave quality, in other words excellent. Both are hollow ground. They are as smooth as the Sheffield 6/8ths quarter hollow blade I shaved with today, and I generally find Sheffield blades to be very smooth when properly sharp.

The Puma is just a larger razor than the Duck. Scales are longer and perhaps a tad wider, spine is thicker as is the tang.

Perhaps your Duck is not quite there from a shaving sharpness standpoint. What I have found is that when a razor is almost there, but not quite, a few passes on a dry Coticule followed by 100 passes on canvas and 100 passes on horsehide will make the difference.