What the Hell!?

I just got a TI silverwing and I noticed it is slightly warped, not visible to the eye but when you put it on a hone you can see it is warped a little.

This I have bought 3 brand new razors until now and all of them have had defects.
1 LeGrelot 6/8 had the same kind of warp as the silverwing, returned it and got another with a stain on it and some pitting, returned it and I'm still waiting for a replacement

1 Dovo ebony spike point with a very loose pin so I had to get it repinned
and now the silverwing..I mean what is going on with the razor manufacturers, is it just bad luck x3 or is this a pattern when it comes to quality check?

And what should I do now? send the razor back? how much warp is acceptable?

It's really frustrating!!!

If it's unacceptable to you then by all means return it.

I think it is unacceptable if the warp was not listed in the product description. I would ask for a refund or replacement.

I stopped buying new because of the quality control. Once bitten twice shy.

Warped blades, bad pinning, warped scales, not shave ready, misaligned markings, etc.,

You would think that at the price you have to pay, the manufacturer would take a degree of pride. The Silver Wing is a flagship product. I don't blame you being frustrated.

The number of men who will have purchased a razor and never understood why it wouldn't cut their whiskers must be in the thousands every year. I don't find it frustrating, I think it's close to criminal.

Manufacturers really should put a warning on the box, "this product will not work until it has been sharpened by somebody who knows what they are doing". If they did that, I'd be a little more forgiving.

Well it is a brand new razor so the shop where I ordered it was of course in good faith, he just ordered it from TI for me.

I guess I will call him tomorrow and see what can be done.

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Originally Posted by English

I stopped buying new because of the quality control. Once bitten twice shy.

Warped blades, bad pinning, warped scales, not shave ready, misaligned markings, etc.,

You would think that at the price you have to pay, the manufacturer would take a degree of pride. The Silver Wing is a flagship product. I don't blame you being frustrated.

The number of men who will have purchased a razor and never understood why it wouldn't cut their whiskers must be in the thousands every year. I don't find it frustrating, I think it's close to criminal.

Manufacturers really should put a warning on the box, "this product will not work until it has been sharpened by somebody who knows what they are doing". If they did that, I'd be a little more forgiving.

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Well said, I think we on SRP should as a straight shaving community (also the biggest to my knowledge) put pressure on the razor manufacturers to make quality control better and stricter. This by for example sending them an open letter demanding that this be done or some sort of campaign to make these sorts of changes for the better, the razor manufacturers can now days be counted on one hand and they should therefore be much more concerned with their quality standards.

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Originally Posted by English

Manufacturers really should put a warning on the box, "this product will not work until it has been sharpened by somebody who knows what they are doing". If they did that, I'd be a little more forgiving.

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At first I thought no manufacturer would make a product and then tell you that it won't work until you pay more money. But then I started to think how many dealers try to get you to buy the extended warranty because the item is going to break about two weeks after the normal warranty runs out? And then there are also the countless hords who still use the M3 thingies. Doesn't work unless you keep buying the hidiously expensive cartriges.
So it should be quite reasonable for a razor to come with a warning saying it needs to be honed (not sharpended, its already sharp) by a hone meister before it will work.

What my true pet peeve is with TI, is the instruction sheet they include with their razors, specifically stating not to hone the razor and only to strop it to shave ready....
That one really gets my ruff up....

It's just in keeping with the way just about all factory made items are these days. There is no such thing as pride in manufacture. Its mostly about finding the cheapest lowest paid workers to produce the thing and then maximizing your profits for yourself. Thats why true craftsman are hard to find and if you can find one you will wait and pay their price.

As far as razors go the only thing you can do is send it back. maybe if the factory gets enough returns it will start costing them more to replace and reship the items and they will find it cheaper to do it right in the first place. Absent that I'm afraid it will be more of the same.

I agree with all. The warping thing, that's just blatant disregard for quality control. I've never purchased a TI, I have purchased a couple of Dovo's, they were both fine. To get three new defective razors is ridiculous. There should be some kind of QC before they leave the factory, or the retailer. I know if I buy a new one, I will have them check it before it leaves....Let this be a Lessons Learned...

Out of curiosity, you said the other had the same warp. Is you hone lapped flat?

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Originally Posted by Rawaz

I just got a TI silverwing and I noticed it is slightly warped, not visible to the eye but when you put it on a hone you can see it is warped a little.

This I have bought 3 brand new razors until now and all of them have had defects.
1 LeGrelot 6/8 had the same kind of warp as the silverwing, returned it and got another with a stain on it and some pitting, returned it and I'm still waiting for a replacement

1 Dovo ebony spike point with a very loose pin so I had to get it repinned
and now the silverwing..I mean what is going on with the razor manufacturers, is it just bad luck x3 or is this a pattern when it comes to quality check?

And what should I do now? send the razor back? how much warp is acceptable?

It's really frustrating!!!

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I'm going to be a bit of a dissonant voice here.
Before anything else, I have not seen your razors, and I think stains and pitting are unacceptable for a razor. Companies hardly ever send normal production, as replacement, to an unhappy customer. Most manufacturers send tweaked and repaired goods as replacement goods, that they received from other unhappy customers in the first place. They do that with laptops and televisions, and I bet TI makes no exception for razors.
While such is not a nice policy, I do think it is of all times, and the only way to avoid is has always been to deal with a very small business that depends on a personal relationship with its customers. Talking about razors, that leaves Maestro Livi, Joe Chandler, Robert Williams, and a number of other razorsmiths, combined with the price tag that comes with such craftsmanship.

About warp: I see more razors, vintage and new, that have some form of slight warp than I see razors that appear completely straight. It seems that it is impossible to completely control what the blade does when it's quenched during the hardening process.
I personally have always accepted an amount of warp, as long as the razor can be honed on a normal hone. So far I have seen one (vintage) razor by the brand Colibri, that is so warped that it could only be honed on a 1/2 inch narrow hone, and makes strange noises on the strop. I consider that one defect, but I still shave with it, because once I figured out how to deal with the warp, it turned out to be an awesome shaver.

I would ask TI about what they consider within production limits, before asking for a replacement. There is no doubt in my mind the people at Thiers-Issard take pride in their work.

Bart.

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Originally Posted by Rawaz

This I have bought 3 brand new razors until now and all of them have had defects.

And what should I do now?

It's really frustrating!!!

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(* Beatnik Drawl: ON *)

Go vintage baby... yeah, vintage.:cool:

(* Beatnik Drawl: OFF *)


I don't know if the old manufacturers had better quality control or there's just been more time to throw out the defective ones.

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Originally Posted by Bart

I would ask TI about what they consider within production limits, before asking for a replacement. There is no doubt in my mind the people at Thiers-Issard take pride in their work.
Bart.

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Good suggestion. While on the subject, what are the allowable standards for warping from TI and Dovo?

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Originally Posted by zib

I agree with all. The warping thing, that's just blatant disregard for quality control. I've never purchased a TI, I have purchased a couple of Dovo's, they were both fine. To get three new defective razors is ridiculous. There should be some kind of QC before they leave the factory, or the retailer. I know if I buy a new one, I will have them check it before it leaves....Let this be a Lessons Learned...

Out of curiosity, you said the other had the same warp. Is you hone lapped flat?

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Yepp I used my chinese 12k lapped with DMT8C, I've checked the hone with other razors and there was no problem there.

I have never seen a perfectly straight razor. But I've never bought a new TI or Dovo, either--all my razors are very old (except my one Famous Double Arrow, which is VERY warped, but for $13 who can complain). Needless to say I've gotten very good at doing the rolling X.

I complain all the time when I receive a non-conforming product. It works 90% of the time too. Plus, your state probably has a law about it called the UCC.

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Originally Posted by Bart

I'm going to be a bit of a dissonant voice here.
Before anything else, I have not seen your razors, and I think stains and pitting are unacceptable for a razor. Companies hardly ever send normal production, as replacement, to an unhappy customer. Most manufacturers send tweaked and repaired goods as replacement goods, that they received from other unhappy customers in the first place. They do that with laptops and televisions, and I bet TI makes no exception for razors.
While such is not a nice policy, I do think it is of all times, and the only way to avoid is has always been to deal with a very small business that depends on a personal relationship with its customers. Talking about razors, that leaves Maestro Livi, Joe Chandler, Robert Williams, and a number of other razorsmiths, combined with the price tag that comes with such craftsmanship.

About warp: I see more razors, vintage and new, that have some form of slight warp than I see razors that appear completely straight. It seems that it is impossible to completely control what the blade does when it's quenched during the hardening process.
I personally have always accepted an amount of warp, as long as the razor can be honed on a normal hone. So far I have seen one (vintage) razor by the brand Colibri, that is so warped that it could only be honed on a 1/2 inch narrow hone, and makes strange noises on the strop. I consider that one defect, but I still shave with it, because once I figured out how to deal with the warp, it turned out to be an awesome shaver.

I would ask TI about what they consider within production limits, before asking for a replacement. There is no doubt in my mind the people at Thiers-Issard take pride in their work.

Bart.

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I see your point about the warp, but still if I pay x2 of my monthly students allowance I do expect a razor that is flawless, this is also what I pay for (I know you must think I'm crazy buying this razor in the first place)..I pay for a razor that isn't warped or have pittings etc.. Also would you accept a TV that for example is discoloured in the middle of the screen?
I also don't know how it could be honed as the middle of the edge would not touch the hone as the sides do. It could perhaps do it with a narrow hone but I don't think it is fair that I should have to buy yet another hone just because the razor has a defect.

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Originally Posted by Leighton

I complain all the time when I receive a non-conforming product. It works 90% of the time too. Plus, your state probably has a law about it called the UCC.

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The state of Sweden?;) Sure you always have "reklamations rätt" (right of reclaiming/complaint) according to "Köplagen" (the purchasing law). As I bought it within the EU I guess there is a similar law within the EU/EEC. Anyway the seller was a really nice guy so I hope it shouldnt be any troubble.

I have to agree with what many of the others said including the dissonant voice. I have seem many somewhat warped blades from the older makers even in my limited experience and for me honing them is very difficult. With that said, I started with t new Dovo basic black scales with Carbon blade in 5/8 for $60 plus $15 for honing. Now, I don't particularly like the shave of a DOVO so I changed to the older Sheffield blades. The last time I was in the Art of Shaving the TI's started at like $135. So at that price and them being new, I think there should be a reasonable expectation of quality.
Here is my suggestion, look in the classifieds. There are a lot of people like Alex, Max, L&D, and many others on the site who sell restored razors that are just as good or better than the new ones. Personally, I like the old ones best, but I was really excited the day I got my new Dovo. Many of these people have their own websites, and I'l bet if you asked them they could get you a restored one for around the price of a new TI and you would enjoy it just a much. Now, i sell them too, but if you are looking for the quality you expect in a TI, please do not buy from me till I have a few more months of practice. Just remember that the classifieds here might save you money. I can tell you that of the razors I have sold, the cheapest have made people just as happy as the more expensive ones that I have sold.
Just my two cents, but there is a lot of better advice here than I could give.

I just got off the phone with the seller, what a gentleman!:bow He said explained that if I have a narrow hone I could use a different technique to be able to hone it, just like Bart said. But he said if I'm comfortable with it I could just send it back and there is no problem. He would also check if everything is fine with the new razor.

He also said that he did not check the razor the first time because he was so exited to send the razor as soon as he got if from TI. :rofl2: (there was a problem with the ordering at first, but he was kind enough to order the razor directly from TI for me).

Anyway it seems everything will turn out for the good in the end.
But still, we customers must always rely on good and kind sellers rather than having trust in the manufacturer..is that the what we want?:shrug:

While warped blades have not been a problem I've seen in my razors with any consistency, my very old Wade & Butcher was actually off a 1000th or two in the middle, so this is not a modern problem.

Looks like you will be made whole. I have also noticed that few retailers actually inspect the goods before shipping. Much to time consuming.

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Originally Posted by English

I stopped buying new because of the quality control. Once bitten twice shy.

Warped blades, bad pinning, warped scales, not shave ready, misaligned markings, etc.,

You would think that at the price you have to pay, the manufacturer would take a degree of pride. The Silver Wing is a flagship product. I don't blame you being frustrated.

The number of men who will have purchased a razor and never understood why it wouldn't cut their whiskers must be in the thousands every year. I don't find it frustrating, I think it's close to criminal.

Manufacturers really should put a warning on the box, "this product will not work until it has been sharpened by somebody who knows what they are doing". If they did that, I'd be a little more forgiving.

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I tend to agree with you. And, with prices of new, top of the line razors, you might as well order a custom....

Jordan