John Weiss & Son?

All,

I'm new here so I appreciate being able to post already!

I bought (but the seller is allowing me to back out because he can't guarantee its authenticity) a supposed John Weiss & Son with ivory scales as well as what appear to be ivory or some whitish covering on the tang and tail. A photo from the auction is attached. I really like the way the thing looks but don't want to pay the bit extra it it's a blade that isn't any good.

My question is did Weiss ever create something like this and if so, should there be some marking on the blade. There are none that the seller could find but I assume it's possible that the engraving on the tang may be covered by the whitish covering. Or at the very least, could this be a Weiss blade and are their blades any good?

Any ideas?

Grab it!! Per Goins' Enclopedia of Cutlery Markings, there are two John Weiss entries. One states John Weiss c1883 to present. The second entry says Weiss & Son 287 Ford Street. c1883 to present. Located in London England, they are manufacturers and dealers in cutlery. The scales on your razor are ivory, hope the back side looks as good as the front. The tang also appears to be covered with ivory, which is very desirable. Very nice find!!

Thanks Croaker - I really like the look of this regardless of manufacturer - it would be nice if the blade is sturdy but it just looks great to me. The find in Goin's certainly helps. The seller stated it was over 70 years old so the dates seem about right. I didn't pay a ton for it so I'm willing to chance that it's as good looking on the reverse. Thanks again! I'll post when I get it and let you know what it looks and feels like.

I think you have a new star for your collection there! Please post more pics when you can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Croaker

I think you have a new star for your collection there! Please post more pics when you can.

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I thank you for the help Croaker! The razor arrived today. The gentleman in Ireland that sold it was honest enough to tell me that he wasn't sure completely that is is a Weiss and gave me the option to return it. After looking at it in person, regardless of maker I'm going to keep it. But I'm going to need some help identifying it. Both scales are beautiful ivory, pins and spacers are original, the ivory is also on the tang as in the photos, and the blade is sound.

I did put a jewelers loop on it as well as some intense light, and even wet the ivory on the tang to try and read the inscription. Fascinating! I can't quite make it all out, but I'll put as much s I can below. Also, the box has similar top and bottom, the top is very clearly Weiss & Son but the bottom (while similar) is slightly different - hard to say which belongs to the razor so I can see why the seller thinks it's a Weiss but can't be sure.

To the tang... as the photo shows, ivory covers it from blade heel to tip of the monkey tail - scales are perfectly preserved ivory on both sides. There is etching or engraving on the ivory on one side of the tang. A picture would be a LOT easier to show here but I can't figure out how to get one with needed light and magnification. So, as a try, here's what I see...

- Three lines of etching in block-like letters on the tang.

- First line contains "Fred Egglet" or maybe Fred Ecclet" - hard to say, it's readable but the shape of the G or C is tough to differentiate.

- Second line is somewhat worn so the most difficult to make out fully. It starts on the left with one of the following possibilities: E18, [British Pound symbol] and 18, or 2 symbols I can't make out that end with a "B" and a coma.

- Second line then follows with "GI," or "6T" (the G or 6 is clear but the "I" has a small T at the top and a small horizontal line below, it may be some wear or it could be that small T with an underline - seems most likely a upper case "I".

- and then the clear word "PORTLAND" which is followed by an "S and another letter or symbol - but that's under the scales. The tang was engraved prior to the scales being placed on it and the last letter would up under them - the letter can be half seen when the scales are opened somewhat.

- Possibilities for the second line are (# means I'm not at all sure what it the letter, number, or symbol is):

E18, GI, PORTLAND S#
E18, 6I, PORTLAND S#
E16, GI, PORTLAND S#
E16, 6I, PORTLAND S#
[British Pound symbol] 18, GI, Portland S#
[British Pound symbol] 18, Gt, Portland S#
[British Pound symbol] 16, 6I, Portland S#
[British Pound symbol] 16, 6t, Portland S#
##8, GI, PORTLAND S#
##8, Gt, PORTLAND S#
##8, 6I, PORTLAND S#
##8, 6t, PORTLAND S#

- Third line simply contain a "W." (a W followed by a period). Stands for Weiss maybe"

So, I guess it COULD be a Weiss but I'm stumped. In any case it sure looks great, I'm just trying to put a proper name to the razor. I'd really like to clean up the blade a bit as well as bring the ivory back to new looking. Once that's done I suspect I may just leave this for display because it looks so damned nice and unique!

On last thing, as I looked between the scales I did see dust and a hair or two along with a small amount of crud between the groves on the top and bottom of the tang (can't recall what those grooves are called, but they're on both top and bottom on the ivory on the tang). Its clearly been used some, and some level of cleaning was done, but nothing professional for sure. From what I can tell looking through the loop everything is original and in stunningly good shape.

So gents - any help at all is appreciated! A complete mystery to me! I looked at picking up a copy of Goin myself but at $699 on Amazon I'm gonna pass and rely upon Croaker and others that may have access to one!

Thanks all.

I just cleaned up this razor a bit and can now see a bit more engraving on the ivory tang. Given that it's a name on the top line followed on the second line with what now looks more like an address - I may have something that someone in W or NW Inner London can help with.

The first line seems the same as above (a name), However, the second line now appears to contain the following:

E18, C3 (or CT), PORTLAND ST.

Followed on the 3rd line the simple letter and period: W.

Could this be a gentleman's address in Inner West London? After poking around in Google I was able to find that at some point the past Inner London had street name changes, and what was once Portland Street is now Westport Street in the District E1.

I dont know the history of Weiss & Son but were they located there at one point - or is this even an address there?

Hope that raises a memory in someone! Still no photos because I can't find a lens that will catch the etching with the magnification and light angles needed.

In the London Directory for 1851 John Weiss & Son were located at 62 Strand and seemed to be heavily involved in the manufacture of medical instruments.

Regards - Walt

Thanks Walt! As I look at the box, (hadn't noticed before) the gold lettering says

JOHN WEISS & SON
227
OXFORD ST
LONDON

Looks like they may have moved some. As I mentioned, the box top and bottom differ slightly so I'm not sure this is a Weiss, but Id like to nail an ID on the engraving on the ivory at least. It's a nice razor and I may just keep trying to get some solid ID on the maker and then I'd consider sending it to Lynn or someone else that's good with stained blades and can clean ivory (but keep the aged patina on it).

Charles Darwin was, apparently, not too impressed with Weiss and Son. In an 1851 letter to his friend George Newport he wrote:

. . . if it be in your power, by lending me one of your old pair scissors sharpened by yourself, & adapted for the finest dissections, in order that I may shame Mess. Weiss & Co to endeavour to make me an equally good pair, (but to open with a spring & mounted with one arm long, for I have in vain endeavoured to cut in the wonderful manner I saw you do with one elbow pointed to the sky); for an eminent cutter ought to be able to make as good an article as you: Weiss has made me two pair, but they are very poor articles.

Regards - Walt

I am also stumped about the make of your very fancy antique razor, but feel very sure from the photo that it will hone up into an excellent shaver after you finish cleaning it up. When you use it, you will feel a rush backward in time, to when gentlemen of means used only top quality razors. Yours is definitely an example of one, whoever made it. Try dental floss, very gently, to clean between the tang and scales. A gentle cleaning with 4-0 steel wool and mild detergent will do much to get dirt and stains off the scales, then soak the razor in mineral oil for a day or so. After you use mild diswashing detergent to remove the oil, hand rub the scales gently with a soft cloth, and they should regain their original luster. Use almost no pressure on those beautiful scales! Careful, the razor will be slippery and you really don't want to drop it! You can clean inside the scales with pipe cleaners. There is much more restoration info available in the Workshop forum, and on the Wiki. My .02 from experiences with similar ivory scaled razors.

Thank you Croaker! Excellent advice! I'd been afraid to try and clean too much too quickly for fear I might somehow take away from it. I can at least work the scales some now. I'll experiment on other blades, and allow someone with much more experience clean up the metal.

And yes, while the new razors are nice, there's just something about that first shave with an old blade that some gentleman way back in time used! A pride in continuing a tradition and bringing a piece of history back to life doing what it was created to do.

I would love to see some "after" pictures, when your razor is fully restored and shaving like a dream. I feel that the long deceased owners of some of the beautiful old razors we restore and use would appreciate their favorite getting TLC and a new lease on life in the next century.

..and this puppy is next in line at the table. Let's see what I can do to clean her up now. Hopefully a new sheen by this weekend!