fork: some razors just seem better than others?

this is sort of a sidetrack from this thread:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...tml#post367285
so i forked it.

do you notice that some of your razors just seem to shave better than others, for whatever reason? as my razor collection grows, i have noticed this more and more, and have been thinking about why. assuming that blade metallurgy is not to blame, i have found that all my best shavers tend to have very similar blade geometry.

the way i see it, there are 2 explanations:
1. my shaving technique is more compatible with certain blade geometries, leading to a better shave
2. my double-bevel honing technique is more compatible with certain blade geometries, leading to a sharper razor

right now i suspect #2, but further testing is needed before i have a rock solid answer for you guys.

i have found that for reason 1 or 2 i tend to not do well with anything bigger than 6/8 or less than 4/8. this might be a function of 1 or 2, not sure, but again i suspect 2 because i have sent razors outside of that size range to others for honing and they seemed to shave better than when i had sharpened them.

does anyone have any thoughts on this? do your best shavers seem to share any characteristics?

I voted metallurgy, but maybe your poll should have had the option of multiple answers.

Some blades take better edges than others.

I think the manufacturer needs to hit a sweet spot that's a combination of alloy, forging, hardening, and tempering methods.
I also think, even for manufacturers with decades of experience, part of that process remains elusive.
But some brands have a higher success rate than others.
The old Manganese Bartmanns, the NOS 7/8 Friodurs that are currently released on the market, the Ice Hardened Dovo Stainless Steel razors, The F. Herder razors, just to name a few.

Bart.

There is one thing I have learned from the testimony in this forum:

If it isn't good steel, you won't be able to get it to shave.

"I now call the victims of Mr. Zeepk to the witness stand. . . victims of Mr. Zeepk!" :roflmao

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Originally Posted by mrbhagwan

There is one thing I have learned from the testimony in this forum:

If it isn't good steel, you won't be able to get it to shave.

"I now call the victims of Mr. Zeepk to the witness stand. . . victims of Mr. Zeepk!" :roflmao

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Could not agree more! I may have prefrences to sizes and styles but there useless without the edge. Perhaps just one of the reason why we all are trying to find the ONE.

There is a significant amount of personal preference to be taken into account here. Type of grind, blade shape, handle shape and feel as well as a decent steel and adequate honing are all factors. This does not account for beard type, lather and face shape and on and on.

Personally I see no advantage to double bevels as the routine and have never intentionally used them. I do tape Damascus razors to protect the pattern, but that would be the only double bevel that I would do. Again, personal preference, experience and success from honing thousands of razors. If it works, I'm all for trying it too.

I will agree though that I have my favorites.............:shrug:

Lynn

I didn't vote but the way I see it there are a combination of factors that make one razor shave better than another including metal, grind, honing, stropping QC at the factory, heat treatment and the way you use your razors.

I find for me there are just certain razors I say are exceptional razors and they cut across all brands and types. No matter what I do to them I can't improve a razor to make it exceptional. It either has it in it or it doesn't.

Here are some things I can tell you, these are my opinion but a well tested opinion...

I only like one type of razor and I own over 50 of them and have owned well over 200 of them myself, this does not include all that I have restored and honed for all of you guys here....

My style of razor is a 5/8-6/8 extra hollow grind spike point razor, almost every razor I own / have owned, falls in this category, so the differences are in brands not in styles... There are for sure differences in the brands, some are way better, then other's, some are smoother, some are sharper... You have to trust me when I say the difference is in the razor, not in I had a good hone day or bad hone day...

Ps: I voted Brand because I feel that encompasses the entire razor, like in the metallurgy, I just felt that the best steel in the world didn't matter if it was ground wrong, know what I mean there?????

I will have to abstain because I think it mostly comes down to personal preference combined with a multitude of factors.

Country. So far, my best shavers have been Sheffield Steel (i.e Rodgers, Wostenholm, Elliot and Reynolds)

Mark

I wish I knew enough about razors to know...but, I am slowly learning.

As stated in the thread that inspired this one, I have one razor which, apparently, is head and shoulders above others with the same/similar grind, but different origins. However, I have other razors which share similar orogins to those...so brand could very well be it. Brand does pretty much encompass quality of steel, quality of workmanship, and other factors...right? And there are good Solingens/Bad Solingens, good Sheffields/Bad Sheffields, etc., right?

So, yeah, maybe brand...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimR

I wish I knew enough about razors to know...but, I am slowly learning.

As stated in the thread that inspired this one, I have one razor which, apparently, is head and shoulders above others with the same/similar grind, but different origins. However, I have other razors which share similar orogins to those...so brand could very well be it. Brand does pretty much encompass quality of steel, quality of workmanship, and other factors...right? And there are good Solingens/Bad Solingens, good Sheffields/Bad Sheffields, etc., right?

So, yeah, maybe brand...

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... mediocre Dovo's / awesome Dovo's...
... mediocre TI's / awesome TI's...

maybe brands?...:D

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Originally Posted by 0o.Mark.o0

Country. So far, my best shavers have been Sheffield Steel (i.e Rodgers, Wostenholm, Elliot and Reynolds)

Mark

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Shouldn't you have ticked metal? I imagine there are plenty of razors whos country of origin is different from where they sourced their raw materials.

I went for metal, because if you don't have good steel you're lost at sea really. If it's good steel then it doesn't matter what the grind is IMO, after all, that bit is personal preference - but no one is going to use a wedge built from an assortment of scrap metals from pakistan just because they're a wedge fan.

You've just got to have good steel.

My Allen 37 Strand not only shaves better than any of the others, it holds an edge far longer. I can get good shaves out out of the softer ones if I periodically reset the bevel, but if I try to maintain them with just the Swaty and Chinese stone, the shave quality seems to steadily deteriorate.

I also didn't vote because there are so many variables in play beyond personal preference. I don't look for any one thing in particular in choosing a razor. I have a Dovo, Geo Wostenholm, Wester Bros, Jowika, and a plain generic round point. Each has its own unique qualities, but they all shave my beard equally as good. I wouldn't choose one over the other on a bet. I love them all.

I'm not a chemist or metallurgist so I don't know what to tell you about the variations you would get in my razors. I'm pretty certain that each of my blades are not the same exact steel. Each were manufactured in different locations. You will likely get a wide sampling of opinions on why a certain blade, manufacturer, etc., is the best thing this side of sliced bread. And for each person that is true because it is what they want. You will have to determine what works best for you. :gl:

I believe blade geometry is the cornerstone of THE razor.

Without that geometry I would have to regrind and rebevel the blade. that's Not THE razor.
I do feel that blade steel is the next building block of THE razor
I am a steel snob with my knives.
Not so with my razors.
Tom

I voted Geometry, but, obviously the steel has to be right too.

If your metallurgy is crap you'll never get a decent shaver whatever geometry, wherever you live for whatever brand you work.

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Originally Posted by gregs656

Shouldn't you have ticked metal? I imagine there are plenty of razors whos country of origin is different from where they sourced their raw materials.

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Good point. Like TI's using Sheffield steel.

On average though, I think that Sheffield steel is turned into English razors, ?Eiklstuna? is from Sweden etc.

Metallurgy to me, is something that can be pondered and argued and arm waved over but until you fire up the old X-Ray thinger...

Steel - Quality Control

... you can't actually quantify whether or not you're razor has "good" metallurgy. So, as I see it, country and brand (if I can vote twice) are an empirical measure of metallurgy based on experience and reputation.

Mark

My most comfortable razors are from different Countries, different brands and are different weights, styles and grinds.

The only consistent is that they have an edge that looks and feels silky smooth and sharp. Its like they mixed the ingredients properly and knocked all the lumps out.

This is down to metallurgy.

Interestingly, I don't think its to do with hardness which is the way the metallurgists seem to point the finger. I think its to do with starting with a quality steel blank and then the quality of the tempering process.

I don't pretend to understand these things but if this is not the reason, I can not understand why some of my most comfortable razors are 150 years old.

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Originally Posted by Kees

If your metallurgy is crap you'll never get a decent shaver whatever geometry, wherever you live for whatever brand you work.

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I go with it.
Recently i found out i have honed blade 3 months ago and the blade still have exact sharpness how was 3 months ago. it did me wonder and i went under the microscope to check this blade. i get a little surprise this blade almost in the verge overhone. shaves the best and doesn't get dull so far.
No i think there is a moment on honing the blade if you catch that moment the blade will be it is excellent shave condition and will last longer.
just wanted let you guys to know and may be some of you had similar experience already

Yes, I have had the same experience.

I think its when you develop the perfect "fin" on the blade.

Yes, I know, that no such thing exists.

Incidentally, you can develop that "fin" on any decent finishing hone.

When you hit it, you hit it and it ain't got anything to do with grit size.