Do I have a vintage TI?

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06-05-2009, 10:23 PM
khaos

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Do I have a vintage TI?

So a while back I bought a fixer upper on ebay because it was cheap and I thought I could fix it up:
vintage straight edge FONTENILLE MEDAILLE 134 - eBay (item 110373576391 end time Apr-08-09 19:36:14 PDT)
I maased her (goldwash gone... noooooo!!!) and tlc-ed her and soon she'll be honed, but I never found any info on her. UNTIL... I checked the shoulderless shaving gang and what do you know? Crichton posted a pic of a TI, that except for the point style (his is French, mine is Spanish) is exactly the same! http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...ving-gang.html (scroll down a bit, it's one of the first posts. Same file work, same sholderless, same thumb notch, same jimps, everything is the same except scales and point. Is it possible I got a company that was bought by TI, or an early TI, or something like that?Please help.
I put the links in but here are some pics for convenience, I will work on uploading a same style shot of the Fontenille to compare with the TI.
06-05-2009, 10:42 PM
thebigspendur

I don't think its a TI. There were quite a few companies making straights in France so the style similarity really doesn't mean much. TI did obtain some blanks from at least one concern that went under, that was Le Grelot.

TI wasn't the only French maker producing quality blades so either way you have a quality piece there.
06-05-2009, 10:47 PM
gugi

no, you don't, that's a different company :)
06-05-2009, 10:49 PM
khaos

Could it be the same type of blank- ie. TI used Fontenille's old blanks? Because the tang and spine are EXACTLY the same...
06-05-2009, 10:53 PM
hi_bud_gl

i do have couple fontantelly and was thinking it is made in spain. i think i was wrong it is made in France and great shavers. Now they same as TI i have no idea. Need to search or someone can help. if you need picture of them i can put it up. 2 of them frame back 1 is regular one.
06-05-2009, 11:11 PM
gregs656

They look like they could be cut from the same blank, they're so similar.

Nice buy either way.
06-05-2009, 11:39 PM
khaos

I'm holding it up to the screen and I am convinced they were either made from the same blank or by the same grinder. If you look at the thumb notch, it is the same style, and extends the same amount. The Spine work is the same. If you look at the heel of the blade, both of them have a slightly different curvature at the edge, almost like a flattened spot. The concaving even ends at the same spot in the thumb notch. I'm not expert in this area, but unless the blanks were preground, and only finished later, this means they were ground by the same person or ground to the same specs.
I have researched this, but I can't find anything on Fontenille at all...
06-05-2009, 11:43 PM
khaos

The length of the spine and edge are the same, it looks like the round point was just ground spanish... and the tang is slightly different. But I swear the spine work is exact and so is the thumb notch, shoulderless grind, spine length, (tip to pivot), edge length, and edge width. (How do I know? I resized the image on my screen to life size and help mine up to it, tilted it slightly and BOOM. So close to exact it's scary)
06-05-2009, 11:59 PM
hi_bud_gl

4 Attachment(s)

ok this is all sorry they all have oil i didn't have too much time.
06-06-2009, 12:13 AM
mparker762

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaos

The length of the spine and edge are the same, it looks like the round point was just ground spanish... and the tang is slightly different. But I swear the spine work is exact and so is the thumb notch, shoulderless grind, spine length, (tip to pivot), edge length, and edge width. (How do I know? I resized the image on my screen to life size and help mine up to it, tilted it slightly and BOOM. So close to exact it's scary)

Doesn't matter. You have a Fontenille. It may well be that they purchased blanks from TI, or vice versa, but it is what it's stamped as.

I have a Dovo and a Chronik with the exact same size, grind, shape, and weight, down to the details in the jimping and polish. But that doesn't mean the Dovo is really a Chronik or vice versa.
06-06-2009, 12:50 AM
Blackstangal

:eek:Fixer uppers? Thats a NICE grip of razors!!!:D
06-06-2009, 03:32 PM
khaos

Quote:

Originally Posted by mparker762

Doesn't matter. You have a Fontenille. It may well be that they purchased blanks from TI, or vice versa, but it is what it's stamped as.

I have a Dovo and a Chronik with the exact same size, grind, shape, and weight, down to the details in the jimping and polish. But that doesn't mean the Dovo is really a Chronik or vice versa.

I realise I have a Fontenille. What I'm concerned about is the steel quality. If they are the same steel and grind, then they should take a similar edge, not so? And the TI is made from best quality sheffield silver steel. So in theory, would mine be too? I'm not out to prove I have a TI, I'm out to find history about my razor.
06-06-2009, 03:56 PM
khaos

Please define shoulderless with pics - Badger & Blade

Second post, second picture... poster goes on to say: I actually have that exact blade, the only difference is that mine is shoulderless actually.

And this one the tang and point match.
06-06-2009, 04:09 PM
mparker762

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaos

If they are the same steel and grind, then they should take a similar edge, not so?

Given moderately decent steel then the heat treatment is the most important thing, much more than minor differences in steel quality, and we have no evidence that Fontenille farmed out their heat treating to TI (or vice versa), or that they used the same heat-treating process as TI, or that they used the same standards as TI.

As another example. dubl duck is simply a label, they had no manufacturing facilities of their own. I've heard that their razors were made by a variety of different manufacturers over the years, including at various times ERN, Puma, and Dovo. Yet all of the dubl ducks are uniformly excellent, and we never try to claim that one wonderedge is really a Dovo or the other a Puma (except for the pumaducks, but that's another matter entirely). The key is that no matter who made them, they were always made to the exact same (very high) standards, and that is the important thing, more so than the exact steel used or who ground the blades.

But with Fontenille and TI, we simply don't know what techniques and standards Fontenille used and how they compared to TI. It's possible they were even higher than TI, and maybe they eventually went out of business because they refused to lower their standards to reduce costs the way TI and Dovo did. But unless we can show that Fontenille was simply another brand of TI's, made and treated at the TI plant to TI specs, we can't say that they're in any fashion "really a TI".