W&B's Edges Are Weak (IMHO, of course)

Just IMO because I have no technical knowledge .... but regardless of how hard or soft the steel is there may be a difference in abrasion resistance. One of the reasons that 304 stainless is used in cement plant klinker cooler sifter plates is because of the abrasion resistance. One of the reasons some SS blades have a reputation for requiring more strokes.

I don't know anything about forging but I'm betting that the smiths at W&B used the eyeball method rather than pyrometers on those early blades. It is proven by US Army tests of faulty Springfield '03 receivers that using the eyeball to judge forging temp and duration by color has variable results. So maybe all of the old Sheffields aren't as uniform in hardness as the twentieth century razors ?

Finally there is the amount of steel that needs to be removed to achieve a bevel. Way more on a Sheffield wedge than on a full hollow. It is not by accident that the full hollow came to dominate the market in the late 1800s. I think the fact that barbers and the general public embraced them at the time points to the much easier honing and maintenance of the full hollow. Until the custom guys came along if you wanted a true wedge it was vintage or nothing. The full hollow drove them into obsolescence.

Well.. It seems like I'm not alone and that's reassuring.

As for honing, all of my blades were honed by TOP guys here on SRP. Not all the same guy, but I've had guys do multiple hone jobs for me on both Sheffield and Solingen steel so I've seen it from quite a few different angles. The result is always the same. The damn W&B's dull quicker than anything else.

Like loueedacat said, I guess I'm just a Solingen slut (bite your tongue, Seraphim!).

NOW... I have just ordered a set of Naniwas at a great price (yes, that was me who snagged that classifieds sale), so I will definitely be re-adding W&B's to the stable once I figure out how to hone. If the quality of the shaves are so good that it's worth more frequent touch-ups, then so be it. Still, I think it's impossible to beat shaves from the Solingens and Filarmonica, IMO.

Thanks for reading,

Ogie

As a side note -- I do have a FR that I just got (see my show and tell thread) that shaved so wonderfully that I can't span my opinion to all of Sheffield (that's too hard to do), but I did own a pair of Wostenholm "Peerless" blades that I got rid of because I wasn't terribly impressed.

To each his/her own.

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Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

As a side note -- I do have a FR that I just got (see my show and tell thread) that shaved so wonderfully that I can't span my opinion to all of Sheffield

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I've had a bunch of FR's too, and they seemed to have very hard steel and were a serious PITA to hone - and I don't mean just because a lot of steel had to come off; honing was a very slow process. I would expect a harder steel to hold an edge longer, so that's probably what you're experiencing there.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

I've had a bunch of FR's too, and they seemed to have very hard steel and were a serious PITA to hone - and I don't mean just because a lot of steel had to come off; honing was a very slow process. I would expect a harder steel to hold an edge longer, so that's probably what you're experiencing there.

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Agreed, and based on what I've read from a lot of guys here, that appears to also be the case with most Solingen houses.

I can't say always because I don't know it to be an absolute fact; however, I believe that most if not all Solingen razors which survived WWII and definitely the ones post WWII - are in fact a tool steel alloy selected as the best quality available for maintenance of a razor. Most of the really old Sheffield razors were cast and not forged at all. Once they got into forging they still stayed with simple carbon steel which was not alloyed in any way. Robert Williams had a W&B from the late 1800s analyzed a couple of years ago and it was cast steel the equivalent of todays 1095 high carbon steel not alloyed with anything and was hardened to 58Rc.

fwiw: Cast Steel does not mean molten metal poured into a mold. It is formed in a crucible and becomes homogeneous; when previously it was smelted, forming blooms of various carbon content.

...And not a word from Glen?

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Originally Posted by kevint

fwiw: Cast Steel does not mean molten metal poured into a mold. It is formed in a crucible and becomes homogeneous; when previously it was smelted, forming blooms of various carbon content.

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You are absolutely correct! I had a slight case of mid afternoon cranial rectal inversion. The rest of what I said is fact though. The W&B he had checked was carbon steel not alloyed with anything and hardened to a 58 on the Rockwell C scale.

Thank you for talking down W&B. Can you please keep this thread going until prices drop and I can buy a couple more?

IMHO WB wedges are great candidates for a double taped spine micro bevel. It gives the softer sheffield steel a bit more strength and it is a quick touch up vs moving a pound of metall off the blade when rehoning.
I can trade solligens for WBs and take those nasty clunkers off your hands:)
Mike