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Confession
Hey everybody. I have a confession.
I've been at it for about a year. I still can't get all of my neck quite as smooth with a SR as I can with a DE.
The rest of my face? 100%, above and beyond the best shaves I have ever gotten. So amazing in fact, that even the imperfect nature of the neck won't get me to quit.
My razors are sharp enough. My prep is good enough....hmmmm, what does that leave....oh yeah...my technique. :aargh:
From an inch off center to an inch in front of the line down from the ear, there is a spot perhpas the size of a silver dollar that I simply CAN NOT get BBS. I go WTG, XTG, do my best to go ATG (sideways toward the center, in flesh that can not be pulled flat, the real contours of the neck simply don't allow it. I sythe, I slice, I buff. Eventually, I get some burn, or even some nicks from trying to force the square peg into the round hole.
Anyone have any super-secret advanced techniques too risky to be trusted to newbies? I remember a few times getting really close in that area. I don't know what I did differently those times. I'm thinking maybe a radical new way to hold the blade to get the correct angle ATG? That seems to be my problem, but I can't find a way to correct it without slicing my throat (which would be horribly counter productive...though perhaps while loading me into the ambulance, the EMT could remark..."Hey Joe, look at the amazing shave this guy got this morning." Then, I could smile as I drift along towards the great unknown beyond this world knowing I got that damned spot smooth.)
Any help would put me forever in your (even deeper) debt.
Your frustrated brother in the blade,
SL1
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I have 2 spots on each side of the neck right under the jaw that the beard grows in a way impossible for ATG pass. I can never get past WTG /XTG with a SR. I think there is nothing wrong with finishing the tough spots with a DE.
If your technique is not perfect, however , you just need to find the right way of doing it.
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Thanks. And while I agree there is nothing "wrong" with finishing up with a DE, especially while learning, I think the point is to be able to eventually do a full BBS with the SR. The professional barber shaves I've gotten did not without a problem (well, two did). I can admit that I am still learning (as is clear from this thread!), but I want to get there....surely SOMEONE can help?
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I have two spots along the windpipe on both sides where the beard direction is crazy.. I can't get it 100% BBS without having my chin at the right angle and the skin stretched in a certain way.... and on top of that I have to use a blood chilling schything motion to really get it even then. Usually I get a pretty legit BBS in two passes everywhere except for those two places by my windpipe. The schythe does it, but I know why the symbolism of the Reaper with the scythe is so effective...right on the throat it gives you a bit of a chill.
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Have you ever seen birds on the expressway swooping down in front of cars ? Essentialy playing 'chicken' with the cars I guess. Long time back a forum member posted on doing a stroke like that. Sort of 'swooping' the blade.
Like the coup de maitre except not as pronounced a blade angle to start from and not under the nose. IOW I start at the standard blade angle and sort of swoop the edge against the whiskers. I have found this stroke to be effective in attacking some tough spots on my neck that didn't get smooth with normal strokes.
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I find that stretching the skin and inflating the cheeks helps a little. I also find that my 1/2 hollow does a better job than my full hollow. The full being 6/8 and the other 7/8.
I use a combination of angles, straight (N/S), 45 (NE/SE & NW/SW), and recently I figured out how to go across the chin (E/W).
Some combination works well. Also a hot water pass at the end works wonders as well.
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I have the same problem....still haven't figured out how to get rid of it.
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Glad (sorta) that I'm not alone.
JimmyHAD, I'll give that a try, and see how we go. Some of the motions I'e tried have been terrifying. Hmmmm...If I go at a 75 degree blade angle, with a deep sythe and more pressure, I wonder what will happe...gurgle, splurt, gurgle.....
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I've got the same problem. Wacky beard growth on parts of my neck. I would need to be a contortionist to get the blade angle just right. I experiment on the weekends when I have time and sometimes I get it (but I never remember what I did because I've tried so many things), but during the week, I just do a quick touchup with a DE to get those elusive whiskers. Perhaps this weekend I'll try the swoop stroke. Hmmm... perhaps I should light a few candles first. :D
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Me too. One small patch on the right side of my neck. I'vr recently got better results there by stretching the skin upward from the jawline.
Best Regards
goshawk
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My face is very forgiving to me as far as stretching is concerned. I can stretch quite a bit without fear of ingrowns or terrible irritation as long as I approach the whiskers from the right directions.
Because of that, I can pull the skin under my ear and jawline upwards and catch the whiskers holding the razor just so. then I can pull it toward the back of my neck and switch grip with the razor and catch them again more against the grain. It's a tight stretch so I make sure my stretching fingers are dry and I've already basically completed my shave.
Since it's only a touch up maneuver, and a hassle, I don't usually mess with it in the mornings :p
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Try this. Let the beard grow out to a noticeable length. Use a USB microscope to suss out the direction of the growth. That way you know how it grows.
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Yeah, the neck is tough with a straight. You need a really sharp razor, and really creative technique to equal a good DE, geared to your exact hair growth pattern.
Like you and many others, I have wacky hair growth patterns in the hollows of my neck on either side of my Adam's apple. In my case, from about an inch or two from the centerline of my neck, up and back to my ears, the hair grows up and back diagonally. When I got good with a DE, I could go directly against the grain on a 3rd pass, from my ears down diagonally to the base of the centerline of my neck. The DE head is small enough in width to do that, straights are not.
I've developed two strokes to handle this that I will try to describe. One is across the grain, the other against. I use them as a 3rd pass touch up. I'll describe how to do the right side of the neck, mirror it for the left.
I'm not an expert, I've only been at this a year. But don't try these techniques if you are reading this and are new. You'll need several weeks or months to get really comfortable with a straight in your hand and a blade on your face.
Cross-grain stroke:
- Straighten the razor out completely like a Japanese straight. Hold the straight horizontally in front of you in your right hand, blade on left, scales on the right.
- Now turn the blade edge upwards to the ceiling, and grip the tang right near the top of the scales like you would grip a pen or pencil. The "point" of the pencil is the blade, the "eraser" of the pencil are the scales. Your index finger should rest on the upturned bottom of the tang, thumb on the down-turned top, the reverse of a normal stroke grip. The middle finger rests along the side of the tang.
- Bend your wrist so the length of the blade of the razor tilts toward the floor at a 45 degree angle
- Now turn your head hard to the left and tilt your head back slightly to flatten the right side of your neck
- Bring the razor to your neck such that the tip of the razor is touching the base of the center of your neck, and the scales are up and back toward your right ear.
- Do light, diagonal upward scything strokes along the hollow of the right side of your neck, the strokes starting along the base of your neck, working up toward the chin.
- You can stretch the skin by placing your free left hand on your right collar bone and pulling down
I use this cross-grain stroke as final prep for the against-the-grain stroke below. If your razor isn't really sharp, this stroke will just "ride over" the stubble. Also, I like tightly-pinned razors for this stroke, no loose, floppy scales.
Against-the-grain stroke:
- Again, straighten the razor like a Japanese straight
- With your right hand, hold the razor horizontally in front of you, this time blade to the right, scales to the left.
- Grip the razor like a pen or pencil at the place where the scales meet the tang. This time, the scales will be the "point" of the pencil, and the blade will be the "eraser" of the pencil. The thumb is on the bottom of the tang, index finger on top, middle finger resting against the top of the the tang right at the tip of the scales.
- Turn the edge of the razor straight down to the floor, and tilt your wrist back a bit until the razor is at a 45 degree angle, scales up, blade down
- Now comes the hard, scary part. It requires a great deal of caution, because you will not be able to see what you are doing, it will have to be done by feel. If you are not completely comfortable with handling a straight, don't even try this. You have been warned...
- Turn your head hard to the left, and tilt your head back as far as it will go. Relax and let your head sink back on your shoulders. This will create the flattest surface possible on the right side of your neck
- GENTLY bring the razor to your face, laying the heel of the blade nearly flat against your right jaw joint. Be careful of your earlobe.
- Now by feel, GENTLY and with NO PRESSURE and the blade NEARLY FLAT against the skin, begin doing light, feathery strokes at a 45 degree angle down your neck from the jaw joint down to the Adam's apple and base. A GENTLE upward scything motion really helps. With a good hollow-ground, you'll feel and hear the pings of stubborn neck hairs just giving up and popping off.
- Did I say NO PRESSURE??? If you try this with pressure, you'll just nick and irritate your neck, not cut hair.
- You can stretch the skin by placing your free left hand on your right collar bone and pulling down
Just reverse all this for the left side. I find this technique duplicates what I could get with a good DE, but only with a very sharp straight and careful technique. It's slow, but I get solid neck shaves this way. And, the straight is much gentler on my skin for this kind of shaving than even the best DE.
Hope this helps. You might practice these strokes first with a fairly dull razor (or even a kitchen butter knife), just to get the feel with less risk of nicks or irritation. A less-than-very-sharp razor just won't cut hair with these stokes, it will either grab or ride over.
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I had one spot that I was struggling to get BBS. Then I got a great tip, from a fellow SRP-member. After the WTG + XTG + ATG try a water pass on the spot. This shows you the hairs and what they are doing as you mow them down.
It works for me. :D
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Have you tried stretching the skin at different angles?
-Chief
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I have tried EVERYTHING I can think of. Stretching, different strokes, etc. This morning, I tried some of the "swooping" strokes that JimmyHAD recommended, and I got pretty close. Still, not teh BBS that I can get on my cheeks and sideburns and other areas of my neck...but getting there, paying REALLY careful attention to stretching and the stroke. Also, I added some water to my lather, and then brushed on a little extra soapy lather, to give REALLY slick slide, and that seemed to help.
The crazy thing is, the sahave I'm "complaining" about is on two relatively small sections of my neck, and the shave is already better than anything I ever knew in years of mach III, etc shaving. When perfection is the goal...any shortfall is rather glaring, you know? Well, it's only been a year....maybe next year at this time I'll get a perfect shave every day.
Oh, and another confession....just reaslized I put this in "Razors" not "Shaving"....maybe in another year I'll be better at using the internet, too!