Typical straight razor sharpness??

Ok so I have less than 6 months of shaving under my belt and much less time with honing experience. I have a handful of razors and I have been trying to learn to hone my own razors. I get decent shaves with the sharpness of the razors that I hone myself but I know that my honing skills still need improvement to get the blades even sharper. I did acquire a couple razors (from other people) that were supposed to be "shave ready" so I have tried to use those as a standard to compare my own honing with. Well just yesterday I received two razors in the mail that I had bought off Ebay. They are supposedly NOS. The manufacturer is Richard Herder (Solingen). One is a 9/16" and the other is a 5/8". I believe that they are not THAT old. The first thing I noticed is that they seemed to be more "lightweight" and they just seemed to be not quite up to the quality of my Wade and Butcher and other older razors. The blade thickness seemed "thinner" if that makes any sense. They just seemed cheaper made. Maybe just my imagination though. They seemed to be "shave ready" so I stropped them both and proceeded to shave. I shave tested both of them. Well during my shave I came to the conclusion that these blades were sharper than anything I have used yet. They are scary sharp! I would put them at the sharpness level of a double edged razor blade. These two new blades are even sharper than razors that came to me "shave ready" (from other people) so it's not just the comparison to my honed blades that I am seeing. Since I do not have much experience with the sharpness levels of straight razors I am wondering if these Richard Herder's sharpness is typical of a well honed straight razor. Should a well honed straight razor's sharpness be equal to the sharpness of a double edged razor blade? Or is this not typical? Are these two blades so sharp because they are possibly a "thinner" more "lightweight" blade?
Any insight on this would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Tony

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Originally Posted by JNT

The first thing I noticed is that they seemed to be more "lightweight" and they just seemed to be not quite up to the quality of my Wade and Butcher and other older razors.

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There is no relationship between weight and quality.

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Originally Posted by JNT

The blade thickness seemed "thinner" if that makes any sense. They just seemed cheaper made. Maybe just my imagination though.

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They are ground much thinner, thinner than the older manufacturers could manage. They also generally have better, more modern steel, which helps them take a better edge. And the lower weight also helps them take a better edge more easily (less pressure on the hone means a better edge, and if you're using just the weight of the razor on the hone, then less weight = less pressure).

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Originally Posted by JNT

Should a well honed straight razor's sharpness be equal to the sharpness of a double edged razor blade?

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Depends on the razor. Many sheffields won't take that sort of edge (and won't hold it for long if they get it). It's more common in the razors from solingen, the US, france, spain, sweden, etc. Basically the more modern razors that were made from about 1890 on. There were huge improvements in steel and manufacturing quality during that time frame, you see this in firearms as well, pre-1890 firearms are generally museum pieces, post 1900 are still good for hunting and sport shooting.

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Originally Posted by JNT

Or is this not typical? Are these two blades so sharp because they are possibly a "thinner" more "lightweight" blade?

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That's not unusual. Many razors can do it, moreso the later manufacture razors than the early Sheffields, because of the generally better steel and tighter manufacturing tolerances. Modern TI's and Dovo's can get that sort of edge as well.

Blade sharpness is highly subjective. However, IMO, the edge on a straight should be as sharp as that of a DE blade. Keep in mind that the DE blade will feel sharper because it's teflon coated. Less friction = smoother and feels sharper.

As for blade thinness... in theory, a thinner blade will cut more efficiently and effectively than a wider blade. Compare an axe to a razor blade. You could potentially have the same sharpness at the edge of both, but which would be easier to shave with? That is, however, an oversimplification. There are many variables that contribute to how effectively your razor shaves: metal composition, bevel angle, technique, your beard texture (vs. someone else), etc...

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Originally Posted by JNT

... Well during my shave I came to the conclusion that these blades were sharper than anything I have used yet. They are scary sharp! I would put them at the sharpness level of a double edged razor blade.

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Out of curiosity, did you like shaving with a razor that sharp?

For myself, I have quit worrying so much about the sharpness of a razor after I realized that some edges are sharper than I prefer. After the optimal for me sharpness is achieved, the smoothness and evenness of the edge then becomes more important.

Thanks to everyones replies so far.

Did I like shaving with it? Yes and no. Probably yes more than no. No because I was afraid I was going to slice myself to shreds possible. It is a new razor with a new level of sharpness that I am not used to so it might take a few shaves for me to get used to it. I did nik myself a couple times but no cuts worse than I have with my duller razors. Yes I liked shaving with it because my duller razors frustrate me sometimes. I can go over a "difficult" patch of stubble again and again with my other razors and at a certain point they won't take the remaining final, last layer of stubble off. These "sharper" ones seemed to do a much better job at "leaving no stubble behind"!

You may find that the sharp full hollows shave better with a lower angle on the blade. I tend to keep the spine just above my skin.

I don't like mine super sharp either. I used to be fanatical about it then decided that I got better shaves with a slightly duller blade, even if the shave itself wasn't as much fun.

I agree, mParker762. Once I learned proper blade angle and more, shaving with a "duller" blade became easy enough. And, the shave is just as close. And, it feels so much better afterwards!

So there is hope for me eh? So you are saying that with time and practice I should be able to get a good shave even though my honing skills don't get my razors as sharp as a DE razor blade? I would like that. I don't want to be fanatical about the sharpness of my razors either but so far it seems that I have to have them that way to get that really close smooth shave. Or I should say it seems to be easier to get them at least. I am not sure about most others but going WITH the grain of my hair growth does nothing to get me a smooth shave. I have tried all the new fangled vibrating razors (schick/gillette) and I have used DE safety razors and now straights razors. No matter what I do or what I use I have never been able to get a good close shave with any of these unless I go AGAINST the grain. From bottom to top. It does make it go quicker and easier though (against the grain) when the tool is sharp as possible though, I have found out. Hopefully my technique will improve to the point where the sharpness will not be an issue.

Not that I have a ton of experience in this area, but I'm coming to the same conclusion. I've honed a couple blades now, and even though they aren't scary sharp like those I've had honed by others, the shave I get is closer and more irritation free.

There are so many variables that relating personal experience must be taken with a grain of salt. Originally, I bought a razor from a brother-in-law, my wife had a barbers hone from somewhere, and I just started shaving. It was a very, very dull blade I know now. But, during that period of time of several weeks before I ran into StraightRazorPlace and started to get religion, I learned a lot about how to shave and not get razor burn. Angle, pressure, etc. When I ordered a razor from Lynn, and was able to adequately sharpen my own blades, I didn't lose the skills I learned the hard way.

My sense is that you are worrying too much about the sharpness of your blade. That is very important. But, other factors are just as important. Don't worry!

A small technique suggestion. You say that WTG won't get close enough. But, it sounds like your other direction passes are causing problems. There is a place or two, thick beard growing in seemingly inconsistent directions, where I don't do WTG/XTG/ATG. I do WTG, followed by WTG+15 degrees, followed by WTG+30 degrees. In other words, I slowly, move my passes in the general direction of XTG. Etc, etc.

There is no magic 90 degrees that has to intervene between passes.

Your comparison of sharpness to that of a DE razor blade is interesting. I have only rarely seen that comparison discussed in the forum. When my straight razor feels like a DE with a new blade, I figure it's good.