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i was wondering if anyone knows if henckles made a tang with an ivory overlay on it. i found 2 today that where of a yellowish color. just not sure if htey even made one. please if anyone has any info on these i would like to know and if anyone can tell me a ball park for them, i know condition and so one i was just looking for a genral eximate. the reason why is that they are only going for about 20 bucks each. thanks guys
I say if they are in decent condition buy them, Henckles are great shavers. There was a seven day set on Ebay that also had ivory tangs not long ago
ok so they do make them then i thiink i will pick them up. thanks for thie info
Enjoy, and post some pics when you get them
maybe i should ask how to tell if it is ivory lol
The SRP Wiki has a link to a good identification guide for ivory, but the example pictures are of small Mah Jongg game pieces. The principles are the same, but I thought it might be helpful to see larger close-up pictures of razor scales, shown below. I hope the pictures aren't too dark, I didn't want to wash out the details with excess lighting.Quote:
Originally Posted by jballs918
I don't know if you're considering buying this online from pictures, or if you have access to the actual razor in-hand. Genuine ivory is difficult to identify from a photograph unless the photography is very detailed and well-lit, but it's much easier to spot in person.
Even in person, a small, thin piece like an ivory tang cover is tougher to identify for sure. Since I'm just trying to learn my new camera, I took some example shots of scales in genuine ivory, bone, and celluloid molded to look like ivory. These are the three most common tang coverings (other than mother of pearl), so the close-up pictures may be helpful in identification.
Genuine Ivory
In the picture below, you see that ivory is pearlescent like tooth enamel, it has a certain "glow" that's tough to show in a photograph, but much easier to notice in person. And it's (usually) very thin, almost transparent. A dead giveaway is that ivory also has wavy lines of grain somewhere on it, called "Schreger lines". These are irregular lines of grain that have depth, and appear and disappear depending on the viewing angle. Here is a shot below of an old Mappin & Webb razor made long ago in Sheffield, taken at an angle specifically to show the Schreger lines:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...dWebbIvory.jpg
Bone
Really good bone can look a lot like ivory, especially in pictures. It's natural, it's shiny, generally cut very thin like ivory. But in person, it doesn't have the translucence of ivory, it has no grain or "depth," it's a bit flat. Another giveaway for bone is that the surface is covered with little pores. These pores often become brown with age, especially at the end of the scales (or tang covering). Below is an old Case made in Bradford, PA with bone scales. They are thicker than ivory, have no translucence, no grain from Schreger lines, and you can see the many brownish pores on the surface in the close up:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...D/CaseBone.jpg
"Ivory" Celluloid
Because ivory has always been so popular, when celluloid came into common use, it was often molded to look like ivory. Sometimes, it's really good. But it's too "perfect" - the color is universally even, no translucence, and the imitation "grain" lines are too dark, narrow, and perfectly straight. This is the easiest to spot as not being real ivory. This is an old George Wostenholm with celluloid scales made to look like ivory. Note the thickness, the even color, and the perfectly straight "grain" lines:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2...mCelluloid.jpg
Hope this is helpful.
thank you for the very detailed post, it should help out alot
That's also one nice lookin' coticule you got there propping those razors up!
-Chief
That is an excellent source of information for anyone with little experience with natural materials to assist them with identification.
Id like to add that while Elephant and Mammoth ivory has the Schraeger lines, all others do not.
Elephant has lines with obtuse angles in cross section on end grain, while mammoth is far narrower - about 90 degrees.
It should be noted that those lines are exclusive to elehant/mammoth ivories, while hippo, walrus, whale and even wild boar tusks do not have the same grain.
Although elephant/mammoth ivories are the only ivories to be considered true and are indeed the most common in razor scales, I have a French razor from the early 1800s which has an ivory that i can not identify. It is definately ivory, I have tried and tested it and it has a visible grain, although inconsistent, few straight lines.
Thanks, Chief. Got that little beauty from forum brother Memorael, it has lovely figure. The green tint of the coticule surface isn't a fluke - it's a tricolor natural, with a top layer of green, a middle layer of pink, and then the BBW blue at the bottom. I'm going to try post it in the SRP Wiki Hone Database when I figure out how to photograph it to show the color layers correctly. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BHChieftain
Thanks Scipio. I didn't know that Schreger lines were specific to elephant and mammoth ivory, interesting. When trying to learn about natural scales like ivory or bone, I've read discussions on the Internet where people have stated flatly that something is of elephant ivory, and I wondered "How do they know that?" Now I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio
There are many real ivory items still being sold on eBay both pre-ban & new that aren't supposed to be. There is an outfit in Hawaii selling new ivory items on-line within US- items are being made w/new ivory & somehow getting through as pre-ban ivory with docs via Asia. There are very few enforcement regulations on selling ivory today even though it is commonly banned from being imported or exported in most Western countries. One day I reported over 10 items that were being sold as faux ivory to eBay customer support that were real ivory- I described the details of what I could as evidence that they were real ivory through pictures & descriptions but eBay did nothing- so if you want to set-up a lawsuit against eBay and make this public because they are not abiding by their own policies then there is an opportunity...
Anyway I wish to comment that French celluloid ivory can also have irregular wavy grains in it like real ivory does (see pic- screw closure). But to distinguish it from real ivory, look at the edging of the fixtures and you may see that is has slightly bent or frayed on old pieces that are celluloid. Ivory will not bend at the end but only will wear down, chip or discolor. Also if you wish to lighten old ivory that has a yellow patina, gentle wash with very mild baby soap and water, pat dry and then place it in the window where the sun shines in and leave it a few days on one side and then turn it as needed. I have done this for old ivory pieces that have scrimshaw on them where the ink has lightened with age and have not had to have the scrimshaw re-done after the ivory lightened from sun exposure. Be careful though because this can cause the ivory to become brittle if it gets too much sun exposure. And yes UV light as been experimented on for lightening human teeth but unfortunately causes gum tissue damage so far with the lasers used. Yet just remember that the more you smile in the sun the whiter your teeth will be!
Old ivory that has hardly been worn will not show as much change in patina as worn ivory- the more that ivory is worn and the older it is, the more yellow it will become. Just as natural turquoise can change color from body oils with wear so can ivory.
Once you hold real elephant ivory in your hand there will never be any doubts again. There is nothing that feels like it. Remember mammoth ivory has been buried in the ground and depending on how well it was buried and the minerals presents and the conditions in the ground it is starting to become fossilized. You usually see this in the outer layers or bark as it is called.
I picked up something similar the other day at an antique shop.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...nlaid-tang.jpg
At first I thought the scales and inlay were made of ivory, so I bought it.
After closer inspection, I decided that this is probably faux ivory celluloid.
I'm not sure if the razors refered to in the OP are the same, but maybe the ivory experts can pass judgement on my razor buy looking at my humble photo.
Shuriken, yes those scales are definately celluloid.