Dying art - o where are thou, Solingen of yore?

I emailed Revisor to ask them if they can do any grinds besides full-hollow, and got this response, which I thought might be interesting to SRP:

50 years ago there were about 700 hundred manufacturers of straights in our city, with hundreds of scilled
hollow-grinders, now in the hole town you will find 3 men which learned it 50 years ago. 2 of them will stop
their work the next few month, both over 75 years old. So we have only the time to produce one kind of grinding.

I hope you will understand what try to explain.

Yikes. I wonder what exactly this means. Presumably at least Dovo needs several blade-grinders on staff? If not several dozen? I wonder if the one remaining he refers to is Heribert Wacker. I also wonder who these two retiring guys are....

Looks like the guys who make custom razors have a guarranteed job in Germany.

Yikes indeed! :dropjaw:

I wonder if there is an apprenticeship for grinding like this?

I read on another thread that DOVO are producing more razors than ever (although please correct me if this is not the case), so what will happen if there is a shortage of experienced grinders? Surely a company that is expanding its production will need to hire in more grinders, assuming skilled artisans can be found?

I should have been a metal worker. None of this accountancy and economics nonsense..! :D

:rock: its never too late stu... and it sounds like apprenticeships in grinding is something desperately needed, i say you go for it! I may consider it in ten years or so. gotta finish my apprenticeship in mounting scrolls first (another but not so rapidly dying art).

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Originally Posted by Stubear

I read on another thread that DOVO are producing more razors than ever (although please correct me if this is not the case),
I should have been a metal worker. None of this accountancy and economics nonsense..!

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I can't imagine that they would be producing as many as they would have in the heyday of cutthroats, though of course back then there would have been far more makers to compete with. The reality is that cutthroats, while seeing a resurgence with aficionados like us, will surely only ever be a minority product in the world of shaving.
If you want a well paid secure job you definitely don't want to be a skilled metal worker in the UK.

This is a very sad commentary on skills that we value and pay for. We don't mind giving a sports figure or a Hollywood star millions of dollars for just entertainment, nor do we mind paying a lawyer, accountant or phychologist $350/hr.

But heaven help us of we find value in a skilled persons hands and we have to pay more than $89.00 for a good straight razor. Watch the list of razor brands to avoid go up and up.

This is why I am pushing people to support Al and The Bomb. We need people to want to learn to become skilled and to consume their skill instead of just being addicted to cheap stuff.:soapbox:

I'm sorry for offending anyone here in any of the above occupations, but we value some of the worst things that man has offered us.

David

Today we increasingly depend on robotic machines to do the work we humans used to do. These machines never tire, nor complain, nor join unions. When they do things well, they do things very well. When they do things badly, they continue to do things badly until someone figures out whats wrong. When the machine that oversees the machine producing the bad part goes haywire, then everything hums blithely on as if all were well.

I'm guessing that when our German meister grinders all finally retire and are not replaced by those who have appreticed in that craft, it's been determined by finer minds, those with that razor sharp intellect, that they are no longer needed in their manufacturing niche. So we either get un-ground razors or those fine machines will make them for us, for us, for us, click-hum, fr us, click-crunch-hum, rf su, rf su rf su...

:beer2:

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Originally Posted by Bruce

Today we increasingly depend on robotic machines to do the work we humans used to do. These machines never tire, nor complain, nor join unions. When they do things well, they do things very well. When they do things badly, they continue to do things badly until someone figures out whats wrong. When the machine that oversees the machine producing the bad part goes haywire, then everything hums blithely on as if all were well.

I'm guessing that when our German meister grinders all finally retire and are not replaced by those who have appreticed in that craft, it's been determined by finer minds, those with that razor sharp intellect, that they are no longer needed in their manufacturing niche. So we either get un-ground razors or those fine machines will make them for us, for us, for us, click-hum, fr us, click-crunch-hum, rf su, rf su rf su...

:beer2:

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Hey Bruce - great point.

I'm thinking we could just stand there and let a robot shave us. Then we could add one more aquisition disorder - Robot Aquisition Disorder.

After a good shave - the bandages should come off in about a month.

David

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Originally Posted by Alembic

we value and pay for............. We don't mind........... nor do we mind........... we find value............ we have to pay...............
We need people skill.....................
we value some of the worst things that man has offered us.

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I hope you don't mind the above editing. The majority appear to have 'voted' with their feet.

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Originally Posted by welshwizard

I hope you don't mind the above editing. The majority appear to have 'voted' with their...wallet.

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welshwizard,

:rofl2:Yeah, I don't mind the editing. Pretty good job of it too I might add. I hope you don't mind, but I made an edit to your last comment.


David

It is very sad to see the craftsmen who made our avocation possible dying off without a new generation of apprentice and master grinders. Looking ahead 100 years, there will be few straight razors in use, and no possiblity of more, unless there is a resurgence in the market and new blade makers appear. It is the same with old time Appalachian music, which I learned to play from two now deceased musicians-I have nobody to leave my clawhammer banjo legacy too, unfortunately. I live in Arizona, and see that the Native American tribes are dying off-there are only a few Deer Dancers left in the Pascua Yaqui tribe, and they are very old men. When they die, those tribal religious rituals and their associated music will, too. What will replace all of these good thing....maybe some type of techno music or rap? Few care about old things now.

I agree it's sad to lose these tradesmen, and what an opportunity it would be to do an apprenticeship and learn this dieing art.I'm sure there are a lot of factors that go into this whole mess. First and foremost is the cost of their handmade razors, most people aren't willing to shell out the money for items of this value and quality, as most guys are looking for the cheaper razors.Also the amount of time that needs to be invested in learning these skills, it seems the majority of the younger generations are looking for quick to learn jobs and skill sets. Then of course you have the mass producers moving to CNC equipment to make the new razors, which has both its negative and positives to the whole equation.Just my 2 cents worth.
I don't currently own a Dovo, but have considered buying one.Although with all the recent posts about their quality control I'm having 2nd thoughts. I know most of the posts are in regards to the scales primarily, and not that it's a huge deal to change them out, but I believe if you buy a new product it should be flawless and scales should be(imo) the easiest item to control the quality of.

The fact is we sit and talk about straights and it seems to us like there is a huge demand for razors. The fact is we as a group represent an insigificant market in the scheme of things. The current manufacturers like Dovo and TI are able to obviously train their own people and the production pretty much satisfies world demand. Probably the custom and small scale crafting market is where you will see production go. I don't think you would be seeing any new large scale operations like another Dovo.

It is sad. It would be hard to count the number of artisan produced products that are/will continue to vanish with the loss of the artisans.

There are only two things that keep me from investing is razors from Revisor, Dovo and TI:

• Approval from my wife
• The uncertainty as to whether straight razors would be outlawed and therefore unsalable.

Seriously, ideally I would take all available funds and buy as many current production razors as possible for long term storage as an investment. I'd have more fun doing this than buying gold and based on the massive jump in razor prices in the last few years alone, I wonder if the return would be better over time.

Oh, I guess there is a third thing that keeps me from investing in razors:

The extra funds.....:)

Chris L

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Originally Posted by Strikur

I agree it's sad to lose these tradesmen, and what an opportunity it would be to do an apprenticeship and learn this dieing art.I'm sure there are a lot of factors that go into this whole mess. First and foremost is the cost of their handmade razors, most people aren't willing to shell out the money for items of this value and quality, as most guys are looking for the cheaper razors.Also the amount of time that needs to be invested in learning these skills, it seems the majority of the younger generations are looking for quick to learn jobs and skill sets. Then of course you have the mass producers moving to CNC equipment to make the new razors, which has both its negative and positives to the whole equation.Just my 2 cents worth.
I don't currently own a Dovo, but have considered buying one.Although with all the recent posts about their quality control I'm having 2nd thoughts. I know most of the posts are in regards to the scales primarily, and not that it's a huge deal to change them out, but I believe if you buy a new product it should be flawless and scales should be(imo) the easiest item to control the quality of.

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I think that those posted complaints were smoke in front of the mirror - a ploy to make the problem appear large than it was. From a personal perspective, I had a problem with a DOVO - it was so badly warped that I couldn't get it to accept the edge I continued to hurl at it. So I stepped back, reviewed what I was doing, fixed THAT, and got a razor that shaved very smoothly. It was my problem - not the razor's. DOVO 1 - tyro edger 0.

Oh, I gave that razor to a newbie who posted here wondering about straight shaving stuff and where/how he could get this stuff together. He said the razor was sharp in one PM, and I neither heard from him after that, nor have I seen any follow-up posts. --DOVO, in the thick of the human experience, hmmm??--

:beer2:

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Originally Posted by Bruce

I think that those posted complaints were smoke in front of the mirror - a ploy to make the problem appear large than it was. From a personal perspective, I had a problem with a DOVO - it was so badly warped that I couldn't get it to accept the edge I continued to hurl at it. So I stepped back, reviewed what I was doing, fixed THAT, and got a razor that shaved very smoothly. It was my problem - not the razor's. DOVO 1 - tyro edger 0.

Oh, I gave that razor to a newbie who posted here wondering about straight shaving stuff and where/how he could get this stuff together. He said the razor was sharp in one PM, and I neither heard from him after that, nor have I seen any follow-up posts. --DOVO, in the thick of the human experience, hmmm??--

:beer2:

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Bruce, nice of you to give the warped Dovo to a newbie. If you ever come across a warped Livi Damascus I would be grateful if you sent it my way .... with mammoth ivory scales. :rock:

Jimmy,

Would it be OK if the scales were straight, or would their warp have to match the bend in the blade? Do you have a preference for damascus pattern, whorls, loops, CW, CCW, straights, or would wootz be OK?

:) :)

ps, I know you read between the lines and found out it was the honer, not the honee, that had a bit of a warp.