About the Gold Dollar razors

Hi all,

lately there has been much ado about the Gold Dollar razors. We've had some lengthy discussions about these razors among site staff and decided to do the following:

1) merge all GD discussion threads into 1 master thread.
2) publicly state that we do not consider these razors good value for money.

Point number 1 is being handled by one of our senior mods and will be done over the next day(s) or so. Point number 2 is what this announcement is about, and I want to take the time here to explain why we are doing this.

SRP is a site dedicated to the art of straight razor shaving and getting the best shave possible. We are not about getting the cheapest shave that is still somewhat acceptable. For some people (for example those primarily into it for the economics / ecological angle), a straight razor is simply a means to an end. There is nothing wrong with that, and if that is your motivation you will get a lot of good info here. More power to you. However, this site is about 'the means' and not 'the end'. Or rather, our 'the end' is getting a great shave, and that is the goal that we work hard to promote. We are into it for the love of the shave and getting the smoothest shave possible.

We've debated long and hard about whether we should speak out on this or not. The biggest drawback is that we don't want to be seen as endorsing some products and bashing other products. It was felt that if we do that, we go down a slippery slope, considering the number of vendors here and the fact that some of our site staff are vendors themselves.

Otoh, we feel that people should be able to feel confident that if they find information here on SRP, they should be able to trust it and be confident that they're getting good information that was given with the ideal of the perfect shave in mind.

Just recently we've had 'arguments' with a vendor who called us elitists because we told him he was not allowed to start a vendor thread for his pakistani razors. He felt that not everyone was looking for the perfect shave, and that some people were happy enough to settle for less if it meant saving money. That member is gone now, along with his razors.

In case anyone thinks the same: this has nothing to do with elitism. For as low as 30$ you can find good razors in our classifieds. If you can hone and know what to look for, ebay can be a treasure trove. Even the low cost razors can be surprisingly good. Wapienicas are among the finest shavers around and I remember when I could buy them NOS at 9$ a piece.

We feel that Gold Dollar razors do not fall in that category, however. They are maybe not outright junk like zeepk razors (only an opinion), but neither are they quality razors made from high quality steel, and we feel that we need to mention that we don't consider them to be in the same league as the other razors that are discussed here. They are just cheap, and their one saving grace that keeps us from giving them the 'zeepk' treatment is that they apparently shave to some degree.

I don't think for a second that everyone will agree with our assessment, and no doubt there will be people who think it unfair that we speak out in public like this. That is too bad. The most important thing from our point of view is that anyone should feel confident that if he gets information on SRP, it was given with the idea of getting a fantastic shave as the primary objective, and not just with the idea of the cheapest acceptable approach to facial hair removal.

In all fairness, this site, like all fora, is about the community.

Without a community, there is no traffic for Vendors and Advertisers.

The Forum management needs to look out for the best interestes of the site. To maintain what they are about, and to uphold their good name.

Takes a long time to build a good reputation and very little to lose it.


Well done sir. Thank you for continuing to make this a top tier site! It is appreciated!

Can we also get an official declaration about how poorly Williams soap performs?


:)

Now, Now, Williams does have "Tallow" I wonder how many guys know that..and it Uber's nicely, I know you know that Seraphim..I used it exclusively for years, until I found all the high dollar stuff....I agree about the Zeepk's. I once found a guy here locally selling Straight Razors and Coffins on Craigslist, Yes, my RAD know's no bounds.
When I met up with him, to my horror, they were all Zeepk, I said, Thanks, but no Thanks. I think you have to draw the line somewhere. I appreciate the fact that we have people willing to make a list of razors to avoid. If it wasn't for that, I may have bought them, and have been aggravated later. I don't have any Gold Dollar's, I was never interested, maybe good instincts., I do have a Wapi though....Good Shaver......

Thank you Bruno...

So, will people who actually do get good shaves and good results from Gold Dollar razors be allowed to post their results as well?

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

So, will people who actually do get good shaves and good results from Gold Dollar razors be allowed to post their results as well?

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Speaking as a somewhat embittered new member who recently had rev 1 & 2 of his "first shave" style thread pulled without explanation (until I specifically asked a mod) because I mentioned my brand of razor, and noted where I happened to have bought it, I'm assuming no.

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Originally Posted by Vulcan500rider

Speaking as a somewhat embittered new member who recently had rev 1 & 2 of his "first shave" style thread pulled without explanation (until I specifically asked a mod) because I mentioned my brand of razor, and noted where I happened to have bought it, I'm assuming no.

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Time and place... this isn't it

PM a mod with issues and concerns like yours

EDIT: When I say 'we' I am speaking in name of SRP site staff.

@Seraphim: A simple question with a not so simple answer. Let's see if I can put words to it.

It is a good thing to speak of your experiences and to discuss them. However, without a frame of reference, it is fairly easy to fall into the trap of labeling something 'good' when in fact it is 'mediocre'. When I first learned to hone, I thought that at one point I was experiencing 'good' shaves while in fact they were just ok. I just didn't know any better. I didn't get a truly shaveready reference razor until I had been honing for a while (due to paypal hassles).

Several of our team have given these razors a try, honed them and shaved with them, and found them to be lacking. The consensus seems to be that they'll shave, but won't get an outstanding edge. Hence this thread.

What prompted this announcement were the recent threads by new people who promote their GD under the assumption that they represent what a good edge should shave like, and to show appreciation for the one who sold it. The deleted post mentioned by one of the poster above mentions that the razor was shipped 'shaveready but not stropped'. Without wanting to offend anyone, this statement alone makes it perfectly clear that this was not an informed opinion in a good reference frame.

We don't censor GD discussion. If we did, we'd just relegate them to the 'bad' list along with zeepk and the other junk. What we will do however, is to merge all the GD dicussion until now into 1 thread. And if people want to discuss it beyond that, that is fine too. What will not be fine is if people promote them as if they were high quality razors, because they aren't.

This is not to spite people. This is to insure that if something is discussed on SRP as being quality items, it should be true if we want to maintain the image of valuing quality shaving experiences. Most of our site team and many of the senior members try out the new things that find their way to the shaving world. We've tried the new eschers and cheap thuringer stones, the wapis, the double arrows, soaps and strops, etc. And I might as well mention we do this out of our own packet and not because we get free stuff.

Usually we find that some people like it, some people don't, and nothing is really below par. The GDs however were a disappointment.

I would also like to point out that this is not the first time such a thing has happened. A couple of years ago we had the same with the 'kamisori' brand iirc, which was not worth its price. Only it didn't cause a fuss then because there were not many members here, and those who were around there were mostly seniors who had a solid frame of reference. And the other thing is that there were no sellers backing it, or at least none for whom SRP played a role of any significant importance that impacted their sales.

Bruno,

I very much take your meaning, and understand where you're coming from. I am also not offended at how you place my comments--though in retrospect, perhaps what I intended to say was "honed, but not stropped"; I was awfully excited just to be trying a straight.

You may very well be right about newbs not knowing when they've had a good shave vs a mediocre; my frame of reference is a DE, and I know that the shave I'm getting is better than my DE with a decent blade. More importantly, though, this is why my opinion was in the Beginners forum; I know that I still have a LOT to learn about straights, and will probably experience much better shaves, but if moderating at this site is going to consist of mods exercising their power to "park" threads regardless of whether or not the thread actually violates forum rules, and without any form of explanation, that's completely unreasonable, and you should be prepared to lose members over it. Sure, you may lose mainly new people--but if I'm not mistaken, we all start as new people.

Just my .02

Thanks for the explanation Bruno.


Razors are at once both subjective (how does this razor feel, look, whatever to ME), and objective (is it well made, can it take a fine edge, etc.)

I find this article an interesting view on what I think often goes on in regards to Gold Dollar razors.

In the article, a world class violinist plays in a subway, and nobody bothers to even stop and listen. "Just some guy looking to make a few bucks playing in the subway...."

The same guy plays in Boston symphony hall, and people pay $100 a seat.


I think perhaps many times someone may approach a Gold Dollar with the expectation that it is cheapo junk. They may not spend the time to hone it up to the level they would have if it were a different brand of razor. Another brand of razor gets honed, and it isn't performing quite well enough, it usually goes back to the hones until it performs up to snuff. If a Gold Dollar fails the shave attempt I think it often gets simply dismissed as the fault of the cheap razor.


The Gold Dollar out of the box is an ugly beast.

A violin right off the rack most likely is not in tune either, but with a little effort, some beautiful music can indeed be made.:)

Things are not meant to happen that way. whenever a post or thread gets moved or deleted, the mod or admin doing that should PM the owner(s) of that thread or post and explain why it was done or what the problem was.

Usually this happens without a problem. Sometimes though, it doesn't, and by the looks of it this is one of those times. I apologize for that. Whenever this happens it is not intentional. It sometimes happens that someone performs an action before logging off and then forgets to do it, or fails to ask someone else to do so, or any of the other mundane reasons that things sometimes fall between the cracks.

If something like that happens, feel free to contact the mod whom you think is responsible for that are, or PM me and I'll find out what happened. We try to avoid just doing things without notice.

Oh and you are correct that we are all newbies at one point or the other. When I first started with a real straight, I all but ruined my razor on a pasted strop. And I am fairly certain my neighbors heard me scream when I threw on my aftershave :) And I do understand you enthusiasm as well. After finding SRP and getting my razor sharp enough to shave, I was really overjoyed.

Interesting thread. I bought one to try and learn to shave with and possibly hone, but with intentions of getting a better razor later on. Kind of disappointing to read that the forum I learned about these razors four days ago feel like they aren't very good... There are a lot of threads that newbies started months ago where members recommend getting these as starter blade from the vendor known as RupRazor. They show up in searches of the site. How are you going to handle these types of posts which lead me to the conclusion that these are good razors and I'm sure will lead other new users to think the same?

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Originally Posted by Infotech

Interesting thread. I bought one to try and learn to shave with and possibly hone, but with intentions of getting a better razor later on. Kind of disappointing to read that the forum I learned about these razors four days ago feel like they aren't very good... There are a lot of threads that newbies started months ago where members recommend getting these as starter blade from the vendor known as RupRazor. They show up in searches of the site. How are you going to handle these types of posts which lead me to the conclusion that these are good razors and I'm sure will lead other new users to think the same?

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Step#1: You already have one of these razors.

Step #2: Hone it up (or perhaps you bought it shave ready? that isn't clear).

Step #3: Make up your own mind, based on your own experience, not other people's opinions.

Maybe you'll hate it.

Maybe you'll love it.

This is a forum to share everybody's experiences, good, bad, and indifferent.

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Originally Posted by Infotech

Interesting thread. I bought one to try and learn to shave with and possibly hone, but with intentions of getting a better razor later on. Kind of disappointing to read that the forum I learned about these razors four days ago feel like they aren't very good... There are a lot of threads that newbies started months ago where members recommend getting these as starter blade from the vendor known as RupRazor. They show up in searches of the site. How are you going to handle these types of posts which lead me to the conclusion that these are good razors and I'm sure will lead other new users to think the same?

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We don't intend to go back through and nuke and pave all of those posts. We will try and make all the information easier to find. The object is the same as it always has been, make the best information available so everyone can make informed decisions. This thread is also an apology for falling down on that in this case and we are trying to make it right.

The process is simple, try and get all the information you can and get it from sources that you can determine are impartial. The execution takes some work.

-Rob

May not be the right place for this, I am not positive, but I'd like to say that I have gotten some extremely good shaves from my Gold Dollar... Now, I'd also like to say that this particular GD was honed by Lynn with the same care and dedication all his other razors get, and I shave tested it against (one of?) Lynn's Revisors, kept in a mug in his bathroom, so I would assume it was in the "shave ready" Rotation... I think my technique has gotten fairly good by this point, I'm irritation free 99% of the time, and BBS 90% of the time... And I can say, 100% certain, that the GD shaved me about 90%-95% as well as the Revisor.

However, I DO NOT want to be used as an example of "He said they were good!! LIIIIEES!!!". I will also say that, of the factory GD's I've seen before... The vast majority were CRAP. Poor grinds, Hone wear, bad shoulders, the whole nine yards. They are not on par with Kriegar or Zeepk, but it takes WORK to get them passable. I will say that I got the 1 in a hundred that shaves excellently.

It happens, but not often enough to call them a grand old razor.

Sorry, again, if this is out of place, but the majority of this thread seemed Condemning... I just wanted to say that once in a while, a real winner pops up. This thing has shaved me better than my Dovo Best Quality and with less irritation. Your milage will DEFINITELY vary. But every now and then there are good ones... Just like every now and then, a Bismarck slips out with scales that make you cry..

Sorry again if I'm out of place... I do, wholeheartedly, agree that they should be labeled as Bruno and the staff have seen fit. I think that is almost spot on.. Just make sure you note that some of them actually perform quite well.

That rambled. A lot.

Cheers.
Jeremy

The people that pay the bills can do what they want but I get a good shave from my GD. I have no intention on replacing it with something else. Maybe if I hit the lotto I will but otherwise I'm good.

Am I to understand that if I recommend that a beginner purchase a starter kit containing a Gold Dollar I am breaking the forum's rules? Or will the mods just chime in to explain to the poor unsuspecting slob that I'm deluded and I don't really know what a decent shave is? In short am I being dictated to, or merely patronized?

Either way, I think I'll just post somewhere else.

Best Regards

goshawk

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Originally Posted by goshawk

Am I to understand that if I recommend that a beginner purchase a starter kit containing a Gold Dollar I am breaking the forum's rules? Or will the mods just chime in to explain to the poor unsuspecting slob that I'm deluded and I don't really know what a decent shave is? In short am I being dictated to, or merely patronized?

Either way, I think I'll just post somewhere else.

Best Regards

goshawk

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I would suggest you re-read the first post.

That is not what Bruno said.

Here is an objective look at a Gold Dollar that I just honed up minutes ago.

Magnification is ~400xx

First pic is the factory fresh edge....MMmmm...MMM, doesn't that look tasty?

Next is the DMT1200 (this sucka is well broken in!), then 5um alum oxide lapping film (the DMT1200 gave a nicer finish...:(), then 3um alum oxide lapping film, then 1um alum oxide lapping film, then 1um lapping film over a layer of paper, then a shot of a HHT hair end off of that edge (this is the level I usually shave off of), then 0.5um diamond film on paper, then finally 0.1um diamond film over paper.

And for the sake of comparrison here is the edge of a WorldMaster, I touched up yesterday, also finished to 0.1um diamond level.

Follwed by the edge of a brand new Merkur DE blade (you can see the teflon coating on there too).

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

Here is an objective look at a Gold Dollar that I just honed up minutes ago.

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And...?

Perhaps you should post this in the Gold Dollar thread, as mentioned in the first post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goshawk

Am I to understand that if I recommend that a beginner purchase a starter kit containing a Gold Dollar I am breaking the forum's rules? Or will the mods just chime in to explain to the poor unsuspecting slob that I'm deluded and I don't really know what a decent shave is? In short am I being dictated to, or merely patronized?

Either way, I think I'll just post somewhere else.

Best Regards

goshawk

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This ,in itself, is the problem with the bigger forums. You get people that are passionate about something, or just have a chip on their shoulder , and they do NOT read and understand what they read before they go ballistic. Of course it is your money and you can spend it as you please. NO ONE has said otherwise. A GD may have it's place with some beginners, but after you have tried some other vintage razors you will see and feel the difference. Not all of us have the money to spend on Livi's or RW's , so there exists a place for all the others. I think the problem with the GD's has come from some people thinking there is no difference. Then you throw in the fact that there was certain people toting them as the Holy Grail here on SRP just to make a buck without caring to actually make them fit for a newcomer. At the end , YOU are the ultimate judge of what you are comfortable with. We all have the right to use them or not to. All I will say is when you and up using something more in tune with some vintage razors , you will know the difference. So let's stop the nonsense about censoring because that was not the intent here. As far as posting somewhere else, that too is your right , just don't blame people for speaking their opinion as that is what you feel you also have the right to,,,opinions ,,,,you know what they say about those.
Just have fun shaving with whatever you like, that is the objective of this forum, as is the passing on of info to the community. I still remember reading some where , long ago, that was the only reason Lynn started this place and brought us all TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!

Seraphim - Can you please state if that's good or bad For those of us who aren't familiar with what an edge looks like? The finished edge doesn't look that bad to me, but I don't really know what a good edge is supposed to look like and comparing it with a lowly Merkur kind of throws me off.

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Originally Posted by Infotech

Seraphim - Can you please state if that's good or bad For those of us who aren't familiar with what an edge looks like? The finished edge doesn't look that bad to me, but I don't really know what a good edge is supposed to look like and comparing it with a lowly Merkur kind of throws me off.

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There is no way to know unless you shave with it.

-Rob

I for one have learned a lot reading the GD posts.
There are days when the posts are about "a razor problem
or feature" and by reading and following with care I find bits
here and there that help me with my Swedish, English, German
old and new blades.

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Originally Posted by sicboater

There is no way to know unless you shave with it.

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I wonder if your answer were the same if one was comparing a newest Livi and a DE. Cui bono?

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Originally Posted by sparq

I wonder if your answer were the same if one was comparing a newest Livi and a DE. Cui bono?

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My answer *would* be the same no matter the blade.


I don't shave with pictures of blades. Do you?

Thanks for "Cui bono?" accusation too. I am going to go count the millions of dollars I gain by being involved in this site.

-Rob

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Originally Posted by Desdinova

And...?

Perhaps you should post this in the Gold Dollar thread, as mentioned in the first post.

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Why I entered it here was to try for a objective look at the edge of the Gold Dollar razor, since that is the subject of this thread.

I can say "This thing glides like butter, and is sharper than any other razor I've ever laid eyes on..."

But that would be an opinion (also simply a statement for the sake of discussion).

So, I was simply trying to provide some objective information, as that can indeed be readily shared via pics on the forum.

As Sicboater said, there is no way to quantify HOW that razor will feel against your face without shaving with it. But the pics show to me, that this particular Gold Dollar (I picked it out of a box at random) is capable of attaining a similar level of sharpness as my WorldMaster. Egde looks very similar, HHT is silent and effortless with both.

Apologies for the Merkur DE blade pic, I never liked how they shaved either, but it was all I had left of my DE stuff (I didn't dare PIF to some poor slob!:)).

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Originally Posted by sparq

I wonder if your answer were the same if one was comparing a newest Livi and a DE. Cui bono?

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Seriously? Every thread that discusses any shave test that I've ever read on this board leads to the same conclusion: the only test that matters is the shave test. Why would that be any different with a pic?

I'm not sure why this is getting people all riled up.

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Originally Posted by richmondesi

Seriously? Every thread that discusses any shave test that I've ever read on this board leads to the same conclusion: the only test that matters is the shave test. Why would that be any different with a pic?

I'm not sure why this is getting people all riled up.

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I've been involved in discussion about religion, abortion, politics here at SRP, but the Gold Dollar is the Mother of All debates!:argue:

I just thought I'd stir the pot a little... I got a GD the other day and here are my thoughts

IIRC it's a 208

1. We all know the scales are CRAP, but this razor was closing centered :D... but on further inspection, the blade edge was exposed through the bottom of the scales:(

2. The grind is not pretty... it is not even (and I mean that in every way possible... toe to heel, or spine to edge, and on either side)

3. the GD graphic is painted on in a way that you can see the "clear" residue rectangle around the graphic... kind of like one of those tattoos you stick on your arm with water if you know what I mean... but the sucker won't rub off!

4. in spite of all of this, I got one with a straight ( or straight-ish) tang. And most importantly, it honed up just fine. After the 1k then BBW/Coticule I got a fine shave :)


So, take that for what it's worth... the few DA/GD razors I've seen have been similar... poor fit and finish, but good shavers

Disclaimer*** I have never used a modified DA or anything with custom work done to it.

Out of the ~50 GD/DAs I have honed, one would not get shave ready.

I just ran that blade again through the same honing progression. Here is the edge at the 1um lapping film over paper level (compare to above shotsthat are quite smooth). The edge just crumbles, and will not hold an edge. Also will not HHT.

1 out of 50 razors. 2% failure rate for me.

Say what you want about microscope pics. They don't tell the whole story, but they do tell alot of it. This edge will not shave (or rather it did, the last time I actually tried it, but the shave was horrible, and not close at all)

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

I've been involved in discussion about religion, abortion, politics here at SRP, but the Gold Dollar is the Mother of All debates!:argue:

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It is the mother of all debates to YOU and you only. It seems you are taking this FAR too personal and have turned this thread into self promotion for profit on the GD's and your opinion seems tainted as you are a vendor. If anyone else came in here promoting a Dovo or a Livi, we would all ask for his head. Self promoting is not the spirit of this forum and has never been allowed. We took a simple post to help newbies be more informed and turned it in this. No more, closing thread.