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Can this be done? Is it done frequently?
Are there some minimum requirements for scales (size, density, weight, only certain woods or materials, etc.)? (Of course, I realize scales must accommodate and compliment the blade.) Provided these conditions are met, can any old wood carver or metalworker make one or is this a very specialized craft?
Thanks,
Derek
Ummmmm Yeah we do that here ;)
The Workshop - Straight Razor Place Forums
and here
Custom Builts and Restorations - Straight Razor Place Forums
and here
http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...26_Restoration
But beside messing with ya there a little, yes browse through those forums and Wiki section and you will see some pretty cool stuff, and the instructions and tips on how we do it...
All you need is the want to and the equipment, there are some companies that make replacment scales and some guys that make some absolutely beautiful hand crafted fully restored razors. There are some great pix on this site. Check out the vendors corner in the classifieds on the menu bar above.
If you're interested in swapping scales without the hassle of making them, you can get pre-fabbed ones here: Straight Razor Maintenance & Repair Needs
This isn't something I would be doing, I'm thinking of approaching a master wood carver or something.
Basically, I am interested in something I have not seen so far, so I was wondering whether this is something an experience wood carver who has no experience with straight razors could pick up and do, or if it would need to be someone who has worked extensively with straight razors.
A master wood carver would probably be able to make scales if you gave him the originals. However, as with most artisan work, the final "fit and finish" will be vastly better if it's done by someone with direct and relevant experience. Professional razor restorers, like the guys found here, will also be able to make it a good shaver with proper balance and a sweet edge.
A stone mason isn't exactly a sculptor and vice versa. They may work in similar media and I'm sure they can do each others job in a pinch..... but not to the same level of expertise.
Here's a beautiful wood rescale done for me by a site member.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...-re-scale.html
I'm sure somebody with carving experience can make scales easily, but it will probably take them few attempts to get the hang of fitting them properly. And then there's the match to the blade and not making them too heavy, or too bulky, or too awkward for stropping (some don't learn even after allegedly 20 years of 'experience', so it's more of a matter of wanting to learn).
OK, thanks, everyone, for sharing your thoughts.
Now. I don't suppose there's a scales expert who is particularly good at carving designs into the side of the scales...
If you know someone, please don't keep it to yourself; if you ARE someone, please feel free to reply or PM me: I realise the commissioning of a piece should go under the appropriate forum; but I have some questions I'd like to ask before I go soliciting an actual piece.
well just abought anyone with good handworking skills could cobble some scales togeather. it just 3 pieces of wood with 2 holes in them after all. getting what you want and being a joy to use is something else , what do you have in mind?
Your best bet would be to have the wooden scales made by someone that's involved in straight razors and then send the finished wooden scales out to your wood carving specialist guy. When he's done carving them he can send them back to the original razor person who can then assemble everythng. Unless you find someone that excels at both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian
I was going to suggest having the scales carved first (assuming old scales were provided for template) , and then sent to a razor specialist for assembly.
Is there a reason to chose one before the other?
Gugi-please pm me about the "20 yrs experience" so I can avoid. It seems though after 20yrs of doing anything a little rubs off. 20 yrs to not make 2 little pieces of material for a handle..........WOW!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
I was thinking of something quite ornate, something that would become an heirloom...
To tell you the truth, I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen many, uh, "fancy" scales: most are just wood (or ivory or whatever). I would think that it would be viewed as too fruity and not macho but there seems to be some intricate design work going into blades' spines.
I was thinking of something with hickory leaves (barbecue!) or malt and hops (beer!) or just malt (whisky!). These images give an idea of what I'm talking about, just from some woodcarvers who live locally:
http://www.spanglefish.com/MichaelHe...ellishment.JPG
http://www.freeindex.co.uk/media/pro...76/Jul0211.JPG
Any help or suggestions will be appreciated.
I've seen posts by a person making scales out of paint stir sticks, so I'm fairly certain you could make them out of intricately carved wood just as well.
It seems to me that if the style you're going for is more of a "relief" style carving, this should be fairly easy to do in terms of getting the weight and size for the scales right. Simply take the original scales, have new ones made that are the same dimensions, but more "fat" on the curve. Then have your artist carve into the curve. The waste material subtracted would then bring the scales back to the proper weight for the blade. Once you've got the two pieces carved send them off to one of the skilled guys on this site to pin them onto your blade with nice fancy washers.
I think the only thing you'd have to worry about with this is the finish. The finishes I've seen on the custom work people are doing here tend to be heavy duty stuff that would be quite difficult to apply to something carved with intricate nooks and crannies. Since it's going to be in a bathroom and exposed to moisture on a regular basis you can't skimp on the finish, so this would definitely be the tricky part in my opinion.
I just bought 2 inch x 2 inch x 8 inch blocks of Cocobola wood, and Ebony wood and Sycamore wood. I will use the sycamore for mostly wedges and the others for scales.
I will post pics when I am done. I have 4 razors that need scales and it will take a few weeks. Be patient.
I have made many scales for knives over the years but this will be a first for razors. I will post any successes..............
:)
Although my experience in re-scaling is pretty limited, I can tell you that I've had much better luck with alignment when I can drill the holes and do primary shaping while the two main pieces are still one. I then split them with the band saw and do the finishing work, knowing the holes are aligned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpie
I'm sure there are arguments the other way, and of course techniques like temporarily binding the two halves together to drill are possibilities, but I like knowing that the holes will be aligned.
I would imagine it would be more practical to hand a wood carver two basically completed halves, and have him do the work on those. In addition, since you wouldn't be doing any more shaping to the scales, he could work within the final proportions of the piece.
My two cents.
Fred
It might be just that we don't have master woodcarvers here yet. I think mackie has recently carved a few scales on synthetics, check his threads. Shutterbug produces some top-rate fancy scales too, but on silver.
When you get it done, get a nice big blade, find out and write down to yourself what you would like in terms of shape, design, performance, materials etc. After that, get a hold of a razor restorer and carver and introduce your design to them and get them to collaborate with you and each other to have it made. There's probably tons of stuff that just won't be viable from either standpoint, so you all need to work together.
To the general conversation, there's few points I'd like to make:
-Master engarvers probably feel the scales limiting, since there isn't very much area on a razor scale.
-tiny, delicate designs on a piece which must stand considerable and continuous mechanical and environmental stress. Nuff said.
-Skrimshaw would be mechanically more stable and easier to protect
-effort vs profit
I kind-of figured this would be a huge consideration... Plus, I suppose the proposed wood carver might not consider things like balance and handle-ability -- things that an expert razor craftsman would consider to be of paramount concern.Quote:
Scales are thin and would take a bit of a touch to carve anything in them.
For the time being, I'm just trying to get a feel for what's possible and what's available out there, and I sincerely appreciate everyone's input.
To be a bit more specific, I'm looking for something in a lighter-colored wood (or old piano ivory, thanks for the rec!) and the carving would have an olde-worlde, antique aesthetic.
If anyone out there "knows someone" or would be willing to say, "Yes, I have a set of scales you can buy for $X, just have the carver create something within Y parameters and I can fit them to a blade," then do feel free to send me a PM. However, please be advised, I will be taking my time and doing a lot of research (as in, definitely weeks' and probably months' worth) on this before I start firing off PayPals. I will post something in the classifieds when I am satisfied I know what I want and what needs to be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian
Personally I think maybe you should listen to what one of the real experts said,,
What you asking to be done is really rather easy,,I would give the exact same advice...
The only people that "MIGHT" posses both skill sets that I can think of are Robert Williams (he does scrimshaw work, don't know if he does relief carving) and John/Shutterbug (he does intricate silver engraving , don't know if he does relief carving)
Other then that you need to do what Max and I both are telling you is to have the scales made with the "Knowledge" that they are going to be carved so the the scale maker can thin them up for balance and flex them after he gets them back, by sanding from the inside...
But they do need to be shaped and drilled first...
This is an interesting thread, and since I have some relevant experience I'll chip in with a few personal thoughts.
This looks to me to be a three part process: 1) get the scale blanks made, 2) pass them on for carving, then 3) return them to a razor man for fitting. Part 3 isn't as trivial as it might appear - with some blades it will call for a good deal of lateral thinking.
The blanks should be made a little beefier than normal since material is going to be removed. That will affect how much they will flex.
The carving design shouldn't introduce any pronounced weak spots, not so much because they might break although that's a consideration of course, but because the bend will become uneven. I imagine a regular repeat design in shallow relief wouldn't cause undue trouble, though the scales might decide to bend into a series of facets if there's work all the way across the grain. Actually, that might be an interesting feature. A metal liner might be a way to get around that one. Here's a link to a carved razor: note that there are no obvious weaknesses across the line of the bend (also that they are plastic ...)
Klauberg, C. & Bros. "Damascene" 5/8 - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Material. The timbers favoured by woodcarvers tend to be bland in appearance with little figure. This is a good thing: fancy wood and fancy carving lead to visual confusion, especially on small objects. Probably most people here would agree that it's best to go for a hard dense material, which often means rosewoods of some sort, but I don't think that's a good option here because of the visuals, and the fact that most woods of that type are quite spiteful if you try to carve them - bits fall off. I'd be tempted to try African blackwood which supports fine detail well (what does it look like? very black), hard maple (pinkish white), or hornbeam (not far off white). Ivory or bone would be preferable to wood for this project - stronger, will support the detail well, and fairly plain in appearance. Sadly it will also be a good deal harder to work, though.
All the above, needless to say, is just my tuppence worth.
I think this sounds like a really interesting and worthwhile project. The trick will be to find the right people to bring it together.
Sound advice, squire.
Regarding the classified ads, is there some system for feedback / ratings?
This is also a possibility.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...e-project.html
Just an idea.
Thanks
Tim
Yeah, I definitely like where that is going! Smart work, I will definitely keep it in mind.
One important detail is that the pivot and rivet locations are bestQuote:
Originally Posted by Arrowhead
known in advance so the carver can include them in the design.
This adds a sub-step to prefit the pins into the scale design. Clearly
you do not want to drill the scales and dig a hole into the design.
What you have stated as a goal is way harder than it might
appear to be. Knowledgeable folks like gssixgun -- are being
oh so polite in this thread.
You need an expert or a plan and budget that permits
experimentation. A set of scales with a hundred
hours of carving by someone unaware of the stresses,
tensions and use as razor scales could split or crack in a
sad bad way while being installed or a year later in use.
And you will need a fine matching carved storage box for the razor
and its friends.