Hi,
I'm told that stainless steel straights require different material for honing. Is there any way to understand if a razor is stainless? Thanks.
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Hi,
I'm told that stainless steel straights require different material for honing. Is there any way to understand if a razor is stainless? Thanks.
Stainless razors dont require different materials for honing, but they do sometimes require a slightly different number of strokes on the hones, as you can read in this pyramid honing guide.
Lynn has said that stainless razors seem to do better with slightly more polishing strokes at the end of the honing. But you can use the same hones for them.
In terms of telling them apart, some of the newer razors (DOVO for a start) actually mark the razors as stainless. But other than that, I'm not sure how to tell them apart. Hopefully one of the steel guys will chime in here!
Good luck and keep us posted!
Some brands are marked Friodur, Rostfri, or SS. Off the top of my head I would say that most have some designation on the tang marking them as stainless. A big exception being custom razors.
Try a magnet. Most (but not all) stainless steel isn't magnetic.
Brian
The high-carbon stainless used in quality cutlery will still be magnetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic
This reminds of some old posts here on SRP.
What was said then was that you can put a drop of orange or lemon juice in the blade (for example in the back of the shank or in the tail) - if it's carbon it will change color, if not it's stainless.
Here are a few rules of thumb. If a razor is vintage, it will virtually always say "stainless", "Inox" or "rostfrei" on it. If it's made anywhere else, it's almost certainly high carbon steel. A drop of lemon juice or vinegar will turn high carbon a dark color where it contacts. It could take a few minutes, though.
Care for it as though it's high carbon steel and you'll do just fine. It doesn't require any different hones or different strops. You just have to hone them till they're sharp enough to suit your fancy. I think high carbon steel will take a better edge, but that's just one man's opinion.
If you want a proof positive test just immerse the blade in some salt water for a couple of hours and you'll know for sure. It should only take you a couple hours of polishing to get all the rust off. Or you can crush up the blade to a very fine powder and if you happen to have a X-Ray defractor lying around the house you could then identify all the elements in the mix:)
Seriously, I've never seen a vintage stainless that didn't indicate stainless. In those days it was a real feature in a razor and most companies advertised that fact.
I guess these razors are not stainless thenQuote:
Originally Posted by PapaBull
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...tml#post595498
as there are no such marks on them.
Any carbon steel is going to be magnetic to some degree or another.
+1 for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27
There are some ways to prevent carbon steel from getting magnetic, but those methods are if not unsuitable then too complicated for such every day things as razors.
In practice it doesn't affect on shaving or honing if carbon steel razor is magnetic. Even honing and stropping causes the cs razor to get magnetised (or de-magnetised) if we have the equipment fine enough to inspect very little details.
Are all Friodurs stainless? I thought that was a tempering, freezing process and not an indication of material.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Goog
For razor steel today use the same hones andQuote:
Originally Posted by ferroburak
care for them all the same.
When stainless entered the knife market in the
mid 60's a lot of us with American Arkansas hones
had a heck of a time with the new steel. And
the rumors began.... but remember knives and
razors are different.
Razors have always been harder than knife steel
so little has changed. Modern man made water
stones all have very hard and sharp abrasives so
there is no problem...
You are correct. Those are high carbon steel, not "stainless".Quote:
Originally Posted by ferroburak
A little funny story that applies here... Others with a machine shop background I'm sure can relate.
Folks would often walk into our shop with a piece of material that they wanted to identify. Some of them engineers, some techs, some just regular folks.
They would hand over the material... I'd perform some useless tests, depending upon how far I wanted to "reel them in." I often had a good idea what the material was from looking at it, but i never let on.. After I was done with the "Show" testing, I'd put the material to my nose and take a good whiff. They often looked at me as if I had two heads! Sometimes other guys would be looking on in amusement. Sometimes they would come over, and I'd hand them the material to sniff also.
Then I would declare the material to be so and so, and ask my compadres who also sniffed if they concurred... They always did!
The engineers often walked away in amazement, or just shaking their heads...
I wish I had a nickle for every time it worked... :)
No doubt about it. The smell of 440c and L1 are impossible to mistakenly confuse. But that's probably something only metalheads truly know and understand. Holding a piece up to your ear and tapping on it with your fingernail is another sure method of alloy identification to the trained ear.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlacknTan
For a second I thought you were going to give it a spark test.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlacknTan
I like your test much better.
Btw steel is carbon plus iron already. Maybe we should not use the name carbon steel :mace:
carbon and iron = steel. Yep. But not all steel is high carbon steel. There are steels with less than 0.6% carbon, which don't really "cut it" when people think of <high> carbon steel, (because it's not) no pun intended. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ferroburak
"Carbon steel", semantically speaking, is "not stainless" and "not highly alloyed" and "not low carbon". Of course, we could be much more throrough in our designations, but I digress. I think everyone pretty much gets the right idea from just "carbon steel".
Maybe I should rephrase it a little, a magnet is going to stick to carbon steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor
This is true as we are talking about the carbon steel in general. There are however ways to demagnetize carbon steel so that it i not magnetized (magnetic wont stick to it) but this change lasts up to few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by stdreb27
Anyway this was sort of hifi from me and have nothing to do with everyday carbon steels. I couldn't even imagine how much would demagnetizing cost: as far as i know, demagnetizing is used in very limited hightech industry only.
About 3 USD using this device: YouTube - MAGNETIZER/ DEMAGNETIZER
Or this bench model or handheld: Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Measuring Tools, Cutting Tools and Shop Supplies
I think Sailor was talking about unmagnetic, not demagnetised steel.
The fact that 3-second thingamabling magnetises/demagnetises the screwdriver is an indication that it is a magnetic object whose properties can be changed with magnetic field (as that thing does). If that thing works on a tool, 100% guarantee it sticks to magnet. What that changes is whether the magnetic field is aligned so it attracts other similar objects.
Unmagnetic steel, one which could as well be plastic for all that thingy or a magnet cares, has a different structure of the steel. I'm not even sure it can be changed on pre-existing object - Most probable it will have to be made that way.
Yes i was thinking with maybe too large levels. I've been with as we have demagnetized ships. They consist of both carbon and ss steel materials.Quote:
Originally Posted by ursus
However demagnetizing affects to DC magnetism only (not AC). Do not ask about the details as i do not know.
For what i've studied is that carbon steel, when left untouched in it's place, will reach some amount of magnetism because of the magnetic field of the earth. When at work, we turn objects we do not want to get magnetized, 180 degrees few times a year.
Interesting :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor
Carbon steel is magnetic, but not necessarily a magnet. A demagnetized steel screwdriver will still cling to a magnet (and become magnetized to some degree again by doing so).
Things that benefit from demagnetiziation are ships that want to avoid mines that detect magnetic fields - and it's useful for files to be degmagnetized so that steel filings don't cling to it. Things that are useful to be magnetized would be a screwdriver so that good steel screws will cling to the tip. Cheap 302 stainless will not, of course, because it doesn't react to magnetism.
==========================================
Quote:
The magnetic properties of stainless steels vary considerably, ranging from paramagnetic, non-magnetic, in fully austenitic grades to hard or permanent magnetic behavior in the hardened martensitic grades.
Austenitic (non-magnetic) Stainless Steels
All austenitic stainless steels are paramagnetic, non-magnetic, in the fully austenitic condition as occurs in well-annealed alloys. The DC magnetic permeabilities range from 1.003 to 1.005 when measured with magnetizing forces of 200 Oersteds (16 kA/m). The permeability increases with cold work due to deformation-induced martensite, a ferromagnetic phase. For certain grades such as Types 302 and 304, the increase in magnetic permeability can be appreciable, resulting in these grades being weakly ferromagnetic in the heavily cold-worked state. For example, Type 302 and 304 increase in permeability by ten fold when the cold reduction is 80%.
The magnetic permeabilities achievable in austenitic stainless steels are very low as compared to conventional magnetic materials. Consequentialy, their non-magnetic behavior is of more concern. In the event that the magnetic property of an austenitic stainless steel is of particular concern, it can be measured by relatively simple means as described in ASTM Standard Method A342.
Austenitic stainless steels are not hardenable by heat treatment. If the application requires that the steel be hardenable, consider using Martensitic and precipitation hardenable stainless steels (see below); however, note that these are ferromagnetic. It is important to consider the effects of using ferromagnetic materials in magnetic circuits if the circuit was originally designed using paramagnetic steels.
Examples of austenitic stainless steels are Type 302, 303, 304, 316 and 316L.
Ferritic Stainless Steels
Ferritic stainless steels are ferromagnetic and have been used as soft magnetic components such as solenoid cores, pole pieces and return paths. Although their magnetic properties are not generally as good as conventional soft magnetic alloys, they are successfully used for magnetic components that must withstand corrosive environments. As such, they offer a cost-effective alternative to plated iron and silicon-iron components. Additionally, the relatively high electrical resistivity of Ferritic stainless steels has resulted in excellent AC performance.
These stainless steels have soft magnetic properties: high magnetic permeability, low coercive force, Hc, and low residual induction Br, which depend on alloy chemistry. In particular, impurities such as carbon, sulfur, and non-metallic inclusions, and stresses due to cold working. Magnetic permeability decreases and the coercive force increases; the behavior is less magnetically soft with increasing amounts of impurities and stress. Hence, optimum magnetic performance is obtained with well-annealed, high-purity alloys. Carpenter 430F and 430FR (Solenoid Quality) is an excellent choice for soft magnetic alloy applications. Note that if the material has been cold worked, its coercivity, Hc, will increase, and when exposed to magnetic fields, it will retain some magnetic effects, hence acting as a weak permanent magnet.
Examples of Ferritic stainless steel are Type 430F Solenoid Quality, Type 430FR Solenoid Quality, and Type 446
Martensitic and Precipitation Hardenable Stainless Steels
All Martensitic and most precipitation Hardenable stainless steels are ferromagnetic. Due to the stresses induced by the hardening transformation, these grades exhibit permanent magnetic properties if magnetized in the hardened condition. For a given grade, the coercive force, Hc, tends to increase with increasing hardening, rendering these alloys more difficult to demagnetize.
Examples of martensitic stainless steels are Type 410, 416, 420, 440B and 17-4.
Thanks for that, Robert. Have you got the reference for that quote? Thanks again.
So cheap stainless razors are non-magnetic whereas all others are magnetic I guess.