What makes a razor a "rattler"?

What makes a razor a rattler?

I've seen this term all over this forum since I've started reading it, and I haven't quite figured it out yet. :confused: Time to consult the SRP collective mind. Please forgive me if it's in a FAQ or sticky somewhere.

Is it the grind? Is it the blade profile? Is it the sound it makes while stropping (or shaving)? Is it just because someone etched "R-A-T-T-L-E-R" on it?? :thinking:

Is a Barber's rattler different from a "plain old rattler"?

A short explanation or a point to a thread that talks about it is appreciated - thanks!

I've heard a few stories, but many are etched "Rattler" I have a few. I've also heard it as a term for loose scales, "It rattels around". Other than that I'm out of answers :p

Well, this is a stretch, but I have a Thomas Butler erazor tched: "Sharper than a Serpents Tooth". A rattler is a serpent.........used incorrectly, a razor will certainly bite you like a rattler!

From Ken Hawley's notes, it is a grind:
Attachment 42664
But I have seen razors of different grinds marked rattler too so I don't know

Often times when I look for answers like this I look to other industries that have been around a long time...

Cars and guns are always good ones...

Look at the term GT as you look through the years that definition sure has been tossed onto the sides of many different types of vehicles, looking at it 100 years from now, you would have a hard time defining what the term meant...

More recently look at the term "Guide Gun" and with it's quick popularity look at how many types of rifles and even handguns now have the designator on them...
Again the original definition has been blurred....

What it might have meant when it was first used might have nothing to do with many of the subsequent razors....

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Often times when I look for answers like this I look to other industries that have been around a long time...

Cars and guns are always good ones...

Look at the term GT as you look through the years that definition sure has been tossed onto the sides of many different types of vehicles, looking at it 100 years from now, you would have a hard time defining what the term meant...

More recently look at the term "Guide Gun" and with it's quick popularity look at how many types of rifles and even handguns now have the designator on them...
Again the original definition has been blurred....

What it might have meant when it was first used might have nothing to do with many of the subsequent razors....

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+1

I have often thought about why these razors were so-called, but as glen points out, the original reason is probably lost to us.

I doubt if it was called a rattler after the snake, 'rattler' being a bit of a colloquialism for rattle snake and the creature not being encountered in the UK.

To "rattle" in one sense means to do something easily and effortlessly - like a salesman rattling off his list of wares.

To "rattle through" something means to do it quickly.

It can also mean inane or mindless chatter - I've known a lot of barbers who rattle-on about nothing in particular! :)

It might have something to do with any of those meanings - or nothing at all!

Regards,
Neil

For the heck of it I went to a dictionary here and looked 'rattler' up. If you scroll down there are a variety of examples. The only one that seems to resemble a man manipulating a razor is a baby shaking his rattle. Unlikely that they would want to use that image as a marketing ploy. :) Lee's post above with the different grinds named is interesting. What we call the faux frameback seems to be the 'rattler' according to that chart.

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Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

I've heard a few stories, but many are etched "Rattler" I have a few. I've also heard it as a term for loose scales, "It rattels around". Other than that I'm out of answers :p

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:) Thanks DwarvenChef, I was thinking along those lines too after beating my brains out last night trying to figure it out. I see one of your "rattlers" here and it seems to support the evidence Mr Hoglahoo has presented.

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Originally Posted by Croaker

Well, this is a stretch, but I have a Thomas Butler erazor tched: "Sharper than a Serpents Tooth". A rattler is a serpent.........used incorrectly, a razor will certainly bite you like a rattler!

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Croaker, I was wondering if it was something like that too, and looking at the grind picture, the rattler grind profile sort of looks like a serpents tooth! :D

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

From Ken Hawley's notes, it is a grind:
Attachment 42664
But I have seen razors of different grinds marked rattler too so I don't know

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Well, that looks like good evidence, and this razor, as well as this one seem to bear that out, but then you see things like this and this that seem to support the "it's a rattler because I wrote it on there" theory. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Often times when I look for answers like this I look to other industries that have been around a long time...

Cars and guns are always good ones...

Look at the term GT as you look through the years that definition sure has been tossed onto the sides of many different types of vehicles, looking at it 100 years from now, you would have a hard time defining what the term meant...

More recently look at the term "Guide Gun" and with it's quick popularity look at how many types of rifles and even handguns now have the designator on them...
Again the original definition has been blurred....

What it might have meant when it was first used might have nothing to do with many of the subsequent razors....

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Glen, this is probably the best answer for me to keep from going crazy thinking about it. I'd sure like to figure out when the name first started getting used.

Thanks for all the replies - keep them coming, I'd sure like to get this one nailed down a little more.

PS: Sorry for the excessive linkage instead of providing the "razor porn" photos to go along with this thread. I tried to upload the supporting photos, but the auto-resizing feature didn't work and it would have taken all day to manually resize them.

"Rattlers", originally were thin blades that gave a lot of feedback or "rattled" when they shaved. The "rattlers" in all the lines like Wade and Butchers were the most hollow ground and it's the thin "rattling" grind that distinguished the "Barber's rattler" from "Barber's Use".

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Originally Posted by PapaBull

"Rattlers", originally were thin blades that gave a lot of feedback or "rattled" when they shaved.

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Jimmy, you should have caught that when you were reading the definition of "rattle" in your dictionary :roflmao

edit: oh, I guess you looked up 'rattler'

Neil and Jimmy,

you both bring up the interesting perspective of sales and marketing.

I remember reading a thread about "drummers" and salesmen, and specifically this post in that thread (Thanks Walt!)

Perhaps "rattler" was meant in the sense of a noisemaker or attention getter, and "rattler razors" are really like "drummers."

Or perhaps, Neil's observation of "rattling through" something (a beard) quickly lead to the name.

Getting closer? Maybe I'm just overthinking the whole thing. . .:banghead: :aargh:

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Originally Posted by mrbhagwan

Or perhaps, Neil's observation of "rattling through" something (a beard) quickly lead to the name.

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That is a distinct possibility. How many times have I seen hearing the razor cutting the whiskers mentioned. Aural feedback may have been the source for the nickname. As far as marketing, thinking about "For Barber's Use", and even more so the few I've seen marked "For Barbers Only." I'm sure anyone who anted up the $ could have bought one of those and the barbers were probably the last people in the queue who would have wanted to wield one of those monsters around a customer's nostrils. Maybe Sweeny Todd. :)

Edit; I had missed Papa Bull's post when I typed the above referring to 'hearing' the razor. Seems great minds think alike.:)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Look at the term GT as you look through the years that definition sure has been tossed onto the sides of many different types of vehicles, looking at it 100 years from now, you would have a hard time defining what the term meant...

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In Europe, GT has always meant Grand Tourer, I suppose it been with us since the 1920s, so nearly 100 years.
However I doubt that many of the cars so designated could be considered to be Grand Tourers.

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Originally Posted by welshwizard

In Europe, GT has always meant Grand Tourer, I suppose it been with us since the 1920s, so nearly 100 years.
However I doubt that many of the cars so designated could be considered to be Grand Tourers.

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...or Gran Turismo? They both mean the same, but which came first - welshwizard starts a sidethread... :)

Regards,
Neil

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Originally Posted by welshwizard

In Europe, GT has always meant Grand Tourer, I suppose it been with us since the 1920s, so nearly 100 years.
However I doubt that many of the cars so designated could be considered to be Grand Tourers.

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Totally off topic, but I was always under the understanding that it was
"Gran Tourismo" which probably does translate to Grand Tourer :)

PS; Neil quit typing when I'm typing or type slower hehehehe

PPS: Neil we have a saying here in the US when two people say the same thing at the same time

Jynx ya owe me a beer !!!

I'll gladly buy you a beer Glen - but first just let me tip Jimmy the wink that its payback time for the "LMAO old fart" - he'll like that!

Regards,
Neil

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I'll gladly buy you a beer Glen - but first just let me tip Jimmy the wink that its payback time for the "LMAO old fart" - he'll like that!

Regards,
Neil

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If the shoe fits we may as well wear it but the other side of that is we will all get there to bear that designation ..... or we won't get there. I'd rather be old than dead. :) At this stage of the game anyway.

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Originally Posted by PapaBull

"Rattlers", originally were thin blades that gave a lot of feedback or "rattled" when they shaved. The "rattlers" in all the lines like Wade and Butchers were the most hollow ground and it's the thin "rattling" grind that distinguished the "Barber's rattler" from "Barber's Use".

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That sure discribes my Northfields, insanly thin.

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Originally Posted by PapaBull

"Rattlers", originally were thin blades that gave a lot of feedback or "rattled" when they shaved. The "rattlers" in all the lines like Wade and Butchers were the most hollow ground and it's the thin "rattling" grind that distinguished the "Barber's rattler" from "Barber's Use".

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I don't know how, but I missed :gaah: seeing your post earlier today Robert - thanks! That does tie in with the grind of some of the rattlers I've seen.

Guess I'd better get those bi-focals after all. :o

Thanks again for all the replies - I know more than I did yesterday which makes today a good day - now. . .
:OT which one of you is going to nail down the orgins of "GT"? :)

Lee and Robert are correct. A rattler razor was the type of grind depicted in that drawing. That said, I've seen a significant number of razors that are in no way a rattler grind, but have RATTLER as an etch.

Normally, in grinding a razor similar to grinding a knife, the blade is held horizontally to the vertical grinding wheel. For rattler grinds, the razor was held vertically to the grinding wheel.

Half rattlers IMO are very cool looking grinds as well. Wedge on top half thin blade on the bottom half.

I would love to see one of the razor makers grind a true rattler grind razor. That would be very cool.

Chris L

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Originally Posted by ChrisL

I would love to see one of the razor makers grind a true rattler grind razor. That would be very cool.

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By Robert Williams. Not sure if it is thick enough below the heavy spine to qualify but it is a cool razor and a great shave. :)

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

By Robert Williams. Not sure if it is thick enough below the heavy spine to qualify but it is a cool razor and a great shave. :)

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Nice! Is that mammoth ivory for the scales?

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Originally Posted by mrbhagwan

Nice! Is that mammoth ivory for the scales?

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Yes it is. You've got a good eye. :)

Jimmy OMG thats a beautiful razor :eek:

Another thought re: the origin of the word rattler:

There was an HMS Rattler launched in 1843. It was the first screw-propelled steamship, others being paddle steamers up to that time. It was pitted against a similar paddlesteamer, HMS Alecto, both were 880 tons, both had the same horsepower steam engines. The Rattler beat the Alecto over an 80 mile course and managed to tow it backwards in a naval tug-of-war. It caused a lot of excitement at the time and was news all over the world, signalling the change from paddle-power to propellors.

It wouldn't be the first time that a razor was named after something fast and famous - does anyone remember the Ebay auction for the "Nancy Hanks 2.08" razor? It was named after the famous horse of the time and even had its fastest trotting record speed - 2.08 mins - stamped on the shank.

In keeping with the naval theme, this idea could be easily "scuppered" by a rattler razor pre-dating 1843!

Regards,
Neil

That also opens up questions of other "Named Razors", Some being easy like the worlds fair and such. I'm still drawing a blank on my Case "Gates & Hillier".

Alas that would be another thread...

That very well might be the origin of the application to razors Neil. What really gets me is the 'Nancy Hanks' being a race horse. Nancy Hanks was the name of American president Abraham Lincoln's step mother as well. When I saw that razor on ebay I thought it named after the step mother and found that very curious. :)

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

That very well might be the origin of the application to razors Neil. What really gets me is the 'Nancy Hanks' being a race horse. Nancy Hanks was the name of American president Abraham Lincoln's step mother as well. When I saw that razor on ebay I thought it named after the step mother and found that very curious. :)

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I think we all thought that at first Jimmy! It was the "2.08" that gave the game away. Again, I think the emphasis came to be on speed thereby completely removing the meaning of "Nancy Hanks" - a train was named "Nancy Hanks" in her (Lincoln's stepmum) honour, then a faster train was given the same name, then a horse was named after the train, if I recall correctly.

Whatever the sequence was, it was enough to totally confuse the issue - if there had been no documentary evidence of the horse, it would be another mystery open to as many interpretations as we could come up with!

Regards,
Neil

i have an old wad and butcher razor that says "celebrated rattler"

Rattler, possibly unravelled - here

Regards,
Neil

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Originally Posted by PapaBull

"Rattlers", originally were thin blades that gave a lot of feedback or "rattled" when they shaved. The "rattlers" in all the lines like Wade and Butchers were the most hollow ground and it's the thin "rattling" grind that distinguished the "Barber's rattler" from "Barber's Use".

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I think this hits home. Those of us who prefer stiffer grinds have some in the rotation which are more concave and "rattle" as they cut hairs. An audible noise! I am sure the "Rattler" moniker has been hijacked throughout razor history as a selling point, like "hollow ground", etc. I think it is in reference to the early concave razors versus the old time wedge grinds to point out the "newness" or "modernity" of a blade in order to sell! As long as the "rattle" disappears on the 3rd pass, you have a fine shave! ;) JMHO...get it on....Tom

I almost forgot! THIS is what it's about! Here is a REAL Rattler! :rofl2:

In fact this is REAL rattler :)

http://traskrom.users.photofile.ru/p.../206669392.jpg