NOS vs. New?

I know that these "which razor is better" threads are impossible to answer definitively.

I was wondering how a quality NOS blade, such as a Filarmonica stacks up against one of the newer high end productions, such as a Wacker? I am only using these two as an example because I have heard people say that the Fillys are waaaaay overpriced given their recent popularity but have not heard anyone say that the newer high end razors, such as the Wacker, are overpriced.

Is the quality of the steel and the quality of the shave comparable?

Don't have any experience with a Filly ... but the Wacker I have (Antik Spanish Pt) is one of my two best shavers ... and the best big blade shaver I have, and that's against a Dorko 300, LeGrelot Quarter Grind, Worldmaster, Wonderedge, Weltmeister, Blue Bell, Heinkels Friodur (vintage) ... all honed by Lynn. The only razor of mine that shaves as well is my vintage Revisor Gold, and it's a 5/8.

I happen to think that most new razors are also overpriced. I mean, I get that the people involved in manufacturing have to be able to live off the money and razor production can't be a cheap industry. But thre are so many good vintage blades out there that are so inexpensive, I just don't understand why people buy new.

This doesn't really contribute much to the original question, except to say that the new high end razors are expensive to make, and the people who are actively making them need the money to live. By comparison, someone who has boxes of vintage Fillies (that ebay guy must have boxes, given how many he's already sold...) is clearly making a huge profit off the sales - there is no way he paid that much back in the day, and comparable NOS razors sell for far less.

In short, I guess it's ethics to me - are you making enough to get by, or are you profiteering. Not that that matters, as it's supply and demand that drive prices.

I can't think of any newly manufactured razor whose NOS counterpoint is eclipsed by the new current production one. Revisor,Puma,Cmon,Dovo just to name a few.

I agree with Holli and the bigspendur. I certainly respect and admire the manufacturers of new razors, and have bought from them out of principle. I want to support razor craftsmen when possible, I want to know good razors are still being made. And they are.

But as long as I can buy ridiculously fine steel vintage razors for less than $50 off the SRP Classifieds or eBay all day long, that are better than most new production, I will do so. That sort of thing is why I switched to straights in the first place.

I have only one current production razor (not a regrind of vintage steel) that meets or surpasses the clean vintage razors I have. But in fairness, that razor is a custom Butch Harner damascus, and I sure didn't pay $50 for it! It's as much a work of art as a shaver, but it's a very fine shaver indeed.

I honestly just get big-time satisfaction out of using clean, old, $25 eBay specials that I hone from scratch myself.

Tim,

I sort of agree. I don't own very many razors, but the only two current production razors I own is a Dovo Best which was my first and a 5/8 Boker Edelweiss because it was on sale. :)

I purchased more razors on the classifieds here for less than both of them and they shave better. So, I agree. There is something cool about purchasing a 50, 75, 100 year old razor, getting a quality shave out of it and thinking about where that thing has been.

My question was more concerning the price of the "high quality" new razors vs. the "high quality" NOS razors such as the two I mentioned. Why are the Filly's overpriced, but the Wackers are worth it? If you had $250, would you buy a new Wacker or a new Filly?

I'm not sure why this is interesting to me, but I notice a bias against high prices on Ebay for quality razors, but the high prices for brand new razors are considered worth it.

Well, I think part of it is what Dylan said, there is a perception that the profit margin on a Filarmonica isn't earned by the seller to the same extent the profit on a Wacker is. The scales of wacker are usually a better material than the scales on a filarmonica too.
So whether any of them is overpriced is a matter of subjective values, as the current market valuation is the same. Of course, small market like the one for straight razors is relatively easy to manipulate. For example if the two ebay sellers that have big stockpiles of filarmonica razors list 10-20 per week instead of 1-2, the prices will drop quickly without anything objective about the razors themselves changing.
So, how much of the overhead is really due to hype is matter of speculation, but there's no denial that that's a real factor in both of your examples.

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Originally Posted by Fbones24

I'm not sure why this is interesting to me, but I notice a bias against high prices on Ebay for quality razors, but the high prices for brand new razors are considered worth it.

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Hehe, I agree. I think Holli has made the point many times that clean vintage razors are an incredible bargain for what you really get.

Last September, I paid $356.00 for an NOS Filarmonica #14 Especial Para Barbas Duras shipped from Spain, the most I'd ever paid for a vintage razor (even now). At the time I felt embarrassed. But that razor has surpassed even my high expectations for it, it was worth every penny. they have since gone up to such absurd levels that $356 would be considered a bargain today. :confused:

That said, I've paid 1/3 of that amount for NOS Heckels Friodurs, Otto Busch Weltmeisters, and Le Grelots that were comparably as good. These are true bargains, hand made jewels available to anybody with a little patience who is willing to look around.

And I've paid well under $100 for dead mint American razors such as S. R. Droescher or Case that are in the same class as those above.

This is not to slight new razors. I have a new Thiers-Issard that I would stack up against any vintage razor. But it did cost me more (factoring in 7/8ths blade size, sweet horn scales, yadda).

I agree with the above statements. Vintage, preowned, or NOS is typically better bang for the buck.

I don't know, however, if it's possible to make a fair comparison of the choices you've listed. Most of the "new" Wackers are fresh Heribert Wacker grinds on vintage blanks (the Dorko's, for example, are vintage Dorko blanks reground by Wacker). Personally, I think those are worth the $$$ since, frankly, the steel feels different to me (in a good way). To blow $250, for me it would be a Wacker/Dorko/Jungmeister every time, with perhaps the exception of a Bergischer Lowe.

However, you can find NOS Friodur's, LeGrelot's, etc. for much less, and you'll get a great shave from those, too.

In the price range you're talking about, it's up to you if you're looking for something that will be a high-quality daily shaver, something with timeless collectible value, or both. How you weigh that is something only you can decide, but there hasn't been a razor discussed in this thread that won't give you a great shave once properly set up.

:tu

In my opinion the new cannot beat the old stuff. Material quality of the older blades are better. Overall craftsmanship of the past is superior to recent products. Alas the reason why the old stuff holds up so beautifully 100 years later. When a product was created in the early 20th century or earlier it was personal and embodied the makers unique style. Seems as if his soul and character was put into the products life. It was not the mass production generic process we see today. Just my 2 cents or bits if you will.

" Those who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like." -Abe Lincoln

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Originally Posted by komjong

In my opinion the new cannot beat the old stuff. Material quality of the older blades are better. Overall craftsmanship of the past is superior to recent products. Alas the reason why the old stuff holds up so beautifully 100 years later. When a product was created in the early 20th century or earlier it was personal and embodied the makers unique style. Seems as if his soul and character was put into the products life. It was not the mass production generic process we see today. Just my 2 cents or bits if you will.

" Those who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like." -Abe Lincoln

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I guess you are right that the "soul" and "character" were put into the products years ago. This alone enhances the value of "vintage" razors. I guess the same can be said for the current production Wackers though as MrDavid pointed out, as they are personally ground by Heribert Wacker. I guess that is why the Wacker was a bad example to use for comparison purposes.

My first few razors were production ones, and I have some of the higher end production razors like Wacker, but my best shavers are my vintage razors.

I reckon the absolute top of the tree in my collection in terms of shave quality are my DD's. Those are just sublime, and they werent as expensive as most of my production razors.

In fact the most I've ever spent on a vintage razor is $180, whereas some of my production razors have been over $300.

Sublime?? I love the sound of that. Never shaved with a DD, guess I'll have to go out and find me one to see for myself.