What degree of hollowness are these?

Hi guys,

Just took some pics of my 2 DOVO razors, but I am not sure what exactly the degree of hollowness is, or what the specifications of my second razor is. Can anybody shed some light?

The first Photo is the Dovo Stainless steel Micarta Ivory 5/8 with etching on the blade. I think it's full hollow. See Below:

Photo #1
Attachment 46832



My second razor is a bit of a mystery to me. I found this at a small store close to where I live for a pretty cheap price - US$ 30, but I know nothing about it. Looks like the store has had it for a long time, and had not sold it. It has a nice wide blade, and it should shave great when its honed.

Does anyone know anything about this one below?
Type of steel, hollowness, etc. etc. I think this one may be a singing blade, because when I flick it with my nail, it does "ping" a bit.

See below:

Photo #2a
Attachment 46833

Photo #2b
Attachment 46834

Photo #2c
Attachment 46835

Thanks!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here...

I've been spending a lot of time lately trying to understand this, and trying to determine where the terms come from.

As best as I can tell those blades are single ground 1/2 hollow. The first blade might be more than 1/2 hollow; it's hard to tell where the edge is in relation to the hollow with the picture there.

+1, I'd guess at half to 3/4 hollow for the first one and half hollow for the second one.

But that really is a guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HNSB

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here...

I've been spending a lot of time lately trying to understand this, and trying to determine where the terms come from.

As best as I can tell those blades are single ground 1/2 hollow. The first blade might be more than 1/2 hollow; it's hard to tell where the edge is in relation to the hollow with the picture there.

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They are both double hollows but whether its 3/4, 1/2, or some other fraction I couldn't say

Dovo lists the first one as a full hollow, but I have no idea about the second one.

Does anyone know any details about the second one? Is it a decent razor?

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Originally Posted by JMS

They are both double hollows but whether its 3/4, 1/2, or some other fraction I couldn't say

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Double hollow based on the double shoulder? I was going off the toe end of the blade, it appears as if the grind was done with a single wheel.

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Originally Posted by leadingedge

Dovo lists the first one as a full hollow.

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That sure doesn't look full hollow to me.
It's hard for me to tell though, because as far as I can tell, there is not an actual measurement on the blade that determines what amount hollow it is.
I have been measuring as many known blades as I can get my hands on, and measuring pictures of blades online. I originally thought that there would be a relationship between the width of the blade and where the taper of the grind ends. That definitely isn't how 1/2 or 3/4 etc. is determined. I still have not been able to figure out for certain how it is determined.
Maybe I am wrong in assuming that there should be a measurement on a 1/2 hollow that is 1/2 of another measurement on the same razor...

This might help:The straight razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki

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Originally Posted by wdwrx

This might help:The straight razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki

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I don't want to take too much away from the OP here, but...
I've looked at those several times as well. There still does not appear to be any mathematical relationship. It sure seems as if it could just as well be more like the top chart and have a number applied to the appearance of a blade as a numerical sequence rather than as a number referring to a relationship between two parts of a blade. 1/4 1/2 and 3/4 could just as well be A, B, and C which then leaves them open to judgment.

I really don't think there are any absolutes. I own razors that don't exactly match any one image.
The "rule of thumb" I've been using is where the hollowness starts, 1/4 the way up, 1/2 the way up... might not be right but seems fairly close. Mind you, that J.A. Henkels chart shows some pretty fine graduations from one to the other that would be pretty hard to eyeball.
I've always thought that close counted.:beer2:

That's what I've been going by too, but that is the problem...
If you look at the first picture in the first post, even if you adjust for perspective that grind starts no more than 3/4 of the way up the blade and yet the manufacturer refers to as a full hollow.
I've tried putting it into relationship with the lower edge of the spine as well, and that doesn't work out either.
What that leaves is to just look at lots of blades and how people rate them and to look at the spine chart in the wiki, then guesstimate from there.
Maybe close enough is good enough...

Those are both full hollows. There is an easy way to see if a blade is double ground, which is the case for most full hollows. Hold the blade so that the face is reflecting a light source. Rotate the blade on its long axis so that the reflection moves from the spine to the edge.
If the blade is single ground and therefore has no belly, then the reflection will uniformly travel from the spine to the edge.
If the blade is double ground and has a belly, then as the light approaches the belly, the reflection will also appear at the edge and two light reflections will merge at the peak of the belly.

+1 they both look like full hollows, the first one looks to be a #105 Ice Temper blade SS... They can get Wicked Sharp ...

The second is a slightly older Dovo...


Both of these are great razors....

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

+1 they both look like full hollows, the first one looks to be a #105 Ice Temper blade SS... They can get Wicked Sharp ...

The second is a slightly older Dovo...


Both of these are great razors....

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100% correct Glen, the first one is SS Ice tempered.

The second one is the mystery to me, I can't find any info on it on the internet, or from Dovo's catalogue. Do you know anything about it?

Seems to be a singing blade, and I got it unused, for a real steal from a local shop that's had one in stock for quite a while.

Cheap white plastic scales though, but that can always be remedied one day!

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Originally Posted by leadingedge

100% correct Glen, the first one is SS Ice tempered.

The second one is the mystery to me, I can't find any info on it on the internet, or from Dovo's catalogue. Do you know anything about it?

Seems to be a singing blade, and I got it unused, for a real steal from a local shop that's had one in stock for quite a while.

Cheap white plastic scales though, but that can always be remedied one day!

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The only ones I have seen like that one are from the guys in EU I have had a few come over for Custom work and honing....
I know TI does different Goldwash for different distributors maybe Dovo did/does too?????

Try this it has some illustrations that may help. STRAZORS.com - all about classic razors - Construction and history

I call them both full hollow ground

as thin as those razors are, I would not call them half or quarter ground, and I am unfamiliar with any 3/4 hollow designation

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Originally Posted by Rookie1

Try this it has some illustrations that may help. STRAZORS.com - all about classic razors - Construction and history

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Thanks for this! The illustrations in the barber manual are different than those in the wiki. I can see how the razor in the first picture of the OP matches the full hollow in that manual. I am still at a loss, however, as to what the terms mean. In fact, I am more confused now than I was before. Yesterday I thought I had it figured out. Today I am sure I don't.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

+1 they both look like full hollows...

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Glen, is that based entirely on just that they "look" like full hollows?

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I call them both full hollow ground
as thin as those razors are, I would not call them half or quarter ground, and I am unfamiliar with any 3/4 hollow designation

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When you refer to hollow are you looking solely at the thickness of the blade? If it tapers down to being very thin, and a uniform thickness at any point above the bevel it's full hollow?
The barber manual that Rookie posted a link to refers to a 3/4 hollow.

Is there a tangible way of measuring this? Where do the terms come from?

:confused: :shrug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

The only ones I have seen like that one are from the guys in EU I have had a few come over for Custom work and honing....
I know TI does different Goldwash for different distributors maybe Dovo did/does too?????

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Hmm, could be, I got this one here at home in Hong Kong, so it may be the same range as the ones you got from the EU. Even though it's new, the goldwash is pretty faded, so I guess it's been sitting in the shop for a while.

I assume that it is Carbon steel?

Eric:

The double shoulder cuts are my first clue...to full hollow, now as Ron pointed out we can't tell if it is farther than full hollow from these pics... also some of the 3/4 hollows can have double shoulders, but often I find those to be Shoulderless...

But that double shoulder is a huge hint that is is most likely Full at least, that combined with I have held razors like both of them in my hands and that they are Dovo's...IIRC that #105 might be an Bellied Blade it has been awhile since I have held one... Feel the blade from spine to edge gently, you can feel a bulge if it is, as it is hard to use the sight test on that one, because of the etch patteren...

There are very few absolute rules in this hobby, and that takes some getting used to, and causes a bit of frustration sometimes... :D

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Originally Posted by HNSB

The barber manual that Rookie posted a link to refers to a 3/4 hollow.

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How interesting, I had not seen that until you mentioned it and I went to take a look. I guess it could be a 3/4 hollow - I don't know

I like to distinguish the razor based on how it feels when I shave, and there seems to be a neatly close correlation between that and how hollow the blade has been ground. That's why I said a blade that thin I would call a full hollow. But lest I be like gugi the charlatan, I will stop short of saying it is officially and definitely a bona fide full hollow ;)

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Originally Posted by Utopian

There is an easy way to see if a blade is double ground, which is the case for most full hollows. Hold the blade so that the face is reflecting a light source. Rotate the blade on its long axis so that the reflection moves from the spine to the edge.
If the blade is single ground and therefore has no belly, then the reflection will uniformly travel from the spine to the edge.
If the blade is double ground and has a belly, then as the light approaches the belly, the reflection will also appear at the edge and two light reflections will merge at the peak of the belly.

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Just checked both of them, and they are definitely both double ground. The light reflection clearly shows this when I rotate it to see the reflection. Nice and easy way to check, thanks for the tip!