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Whether it's a new factory razor, a custom razor, or a vintage razor, has anyone undertaken to determine (in a scientific way, as by analyzing the steel, etc.) why one razor is "better" than another razor? What is it about a particular razor that makes it shave better than another? (Excluding, of course, differences in honing, shaving technique, etc.).
Steel quality is obviously one
At a certain level they are all 'good'. Some seem to be better than others as far as taking and holding an edge. I think that a lot has to do with personal preferences in terms of how the shave feels to the end user.
This is unfortunately one of those impossible questions as its really all down to personal taste..! :)
In general, good steel will be hard enough to take and hold a good shaving edge, but not so hard that it becomes chippy and brittle, and it will be able to be polished to a good smooth edge without micro chipping. But the rub is that different people will prefer the feel of different steel on their skin.
For example, I really like DD's. I think they shave so well that its one of the few vintage razors I own more than one of. W&B is the other. But other guys might prefer Torrey's, or Reynolds or whatever.... The list goes on.
So in order to analyse the steel of the best razor, we first have to come to an agreement of what is the "best" razor? But if I'm a DD guy and you're a Torrey guy we have a problem!
Razors like Zeepks are made from poor quality steel thats too soft or poorly made to take a good edge, which is what makes them bad but again thats a generalisation on what is "good" and what is "bad".
As to what makes a DD better than a W&B? Personal choice. They're both great shavers and analysis under a scope would probably reveal a fair few similarities, but some people prefer the feel of one razor to another.
I hope my ramblings were of some help! :)
I agree with the previous positions. Many personal preferences, including aesthetics. Guy like horn scales - some not. Guys like gold wash - some not. Guys just like plain black scales - others not.
I personally have some issues trying to shave with full hollow grounds and the way the sound. But other's love them.
I am inclined to agree that once we get beyond the ability to take and hold a fine edge - this would be a most elusive task.
I certainly don't have the expertise that others here have, but it seems to me that it would always come down to just two things: the quality of the steel used to make the razor and the size and shape of blade, spine and tang. There's just not much else to a razor, is there?
Except that these two things probably break down into 10 or 20 different smaller things when you start to look at them closely. Stainless or high-carbon? 6/8 or 7/8? 1/4 hollow or 3/4 hollow? And so forth.
And there's not really much opportunity to compare each individual characteristic side-by-side because people don't generally have multiple examples of the same razor that differ by just one or two characteristics.
Finally, there's probably quite a bit of variation in the sort of shave you're looking for on Monday (after two days' rest) versus Friday (after four days of shaving).
In other words, it's complicated!
Tool steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
yes to all of the above, i own way too many razors and keep looking for the "best" but alas, every last one of my vintage razors give a great shave from the little 3/8 sweed to the mighty 8/8 wade , full hollow or wedge. oh ill keep looking,but i hope i never find the grail
I asked the wrong question. I don't know what "good, better, best" means to anyone, and I think I know those words mean different things to different people. I guess I don't know what question to ask to get the information I'm after.
I'm not wondering about the aesthetics of razors. Me, I don't care whether the scales are black, white, mother of pearl, whatever, so long as the scales are sound. I don't care how the razor feels in my hand. I'm interested in finding out, if possible, whether an particular brand (especially vintage razors) is capable of giving a "better" shave. Mind you, I don't know what "better," is, so I guess I'm curious about razor steel.
Is there any information to indicate that there is a difference between the steel used by, say, Wade and Butcher, and Reynolds, or Allen, or whomever? If the manufacturers used the same steel, then probably (possibly?) any given brand razor could be given as keen an edge (if that is a relevant consideration) than any other brand razor--and any given brand could be made to shave as well as any other brand. I'd like to know which is the razor to buy that is capable of taking the "best" (there we go again) edge for shaving. To me that means the edge most likely to give a smooth, close shave, without regard to whether the edge is prone to chipping, has to be touched up more than another blade, etc.
I'm after reliable, objective, information about the quality of blade steel used in vintage razors, so I can decide for myself which razors are worth (to me) restoring.
I wish I could articulate the question more clearly. I'm continuing to think about what terms to use, and these various responses are helping me.
I am 98% sure that: This information is unknown today. All you can get is the opinion of people who have used the razors, but that's already been gone into above.Quote:
Originally Posted by fdennis
Well if you don't know what 'good/better/best' is there's no way anybody can tell you which razor is which.
There is no information on steel composition for various manufacturers. May be some of it is due to them wanting to keep any secrets propeietary, probably part is that with the 19th and 20th century technology the variations are fairly large.
Just as important as steel is, so is the heat treatment of that steel.
And even though right now you don't care about the grind quality, once you start honing the razors you'll very quickly change your mind.
So, no, there is no reliable, objective information and you will only know how a razor shaves once you've done all the work. If you don't like gambling you should let somebody else take the risk and buy the finished product that's ready to go. Of course you can reduce the risk by staying away from poorly ground, honed and damaged razors, and buying brands that are known for consistency. That of course means you have to pay a premium for the reduced risk you're takingQuote:
Originally Posted by fdennis
You might try sending a PM to Mike Blue. He is a member who is very familiar with steel in general and steel for razors in particular. As gugi noted the heat treatment of the steel is all important regardless of the alloy. Back in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries they were beginning to use crude, by today's standards, pyrometers but a lot of it was probably done by eye.
IIRC Josh Earl and Mike Blue were going to take old blades from various eras and manufacturers and analyze them for metallurgical content, hardness and what have you. I donated a junk Cattaragaus to the project but I believe it never did ge off the ground. If you want to know which of the old brands was the "best" I don't think that is doable.
Some of all of them are great and some of all of them are probably mediocre. Part of the fun of RAD and honing/shaving with them is the gamble of which you ended up with. :)
+1000 :tu. Stu is right on the money, IMO. YMMV with blades. What you think is good may not be terrible in my book. So, all you can do is determine what works for you. It's a #s gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Stubear
Hmmm... read through this thread with interest and although I am a noob, at straight razor shaving I am quite adept at learning.
this is the way I look at it, for example, in playing piano there is no one definitive way of playing, there are many variations in what is determined to be correct technique, usually described as 'recommended' ways of playing.
Just as there are many recommended makes of razor, Sheffield steel for example is deemed good steel and just as in playing piano or learning languages you also have to make your own mistakes to find the right recommended technique, or in this case straight razor,
there is no quick way around it you need to take some risks for possibly the best shave you'll ever have.Quote:
Some of all of them are great and some of all of them are probably mediocre. Part of the fun of RAD and honing/shaving with them is the gamble of which you ended up with.
So I look at it as, outof the good ones whats best for me, thats why I have bought four straight razors from 3 different recommended makers and I will see how I shave with them. If I don't like them I will probably post my views on this forum and see if anyone else would like to try them out.
So trial and error unfortunately, or fortunately if you've been bitten by the bug of straight razor collection, or RAD I think it is
I surrender! I knew going in that this was probably an unanswerable question, but I was interested in whatever answers I got. All the answers have been helpful at one level or another. Thanks, everyone.