What Is It About These Old Razors?

New to straight shaving, after a mistake or two, I started out with several new Dovos, professionally honed.

eBay adventures netted me some pretty nasty specimens, but also some razors that looked okay to me but that I didn't know much about. I set them aside in a "project pile" to look at and work on later.

Recently, I realized these were all actually pretty well-respected brands, so I cautiously started cleaning them and working on the edges. All seemed to have an undamaged edge, all but one had what looked like a decent bevel. Slowly, I've honed them and recently tried shaving with them.

All I can say is WOW. Since my honing skills are likely not the explanation, I just have to think those old razors had something special that made them easy to work with. All four of these old-timers give a smooth, creamy shave. I find it's easy with them to keep my touch light. I've had several days now to play with them, and I must say, I like them better than my (wonderful) professionally honed new razors.

For the record, here's what I've got:

Dubl Duck Special Wedge-This one seems to have some bluing on the rib and shank that I decided I didn't want to try to remove. I was mentored along by someone on this board with honing this one from setting the bevel through the pyramid, etc.

Robeson Shur Edge-The first one I actually felt the magic on. Made me pull that Dubl Duck out of the "project" pile, finish it and shave with it.

Wostenholm IXL-Another in the project pile, honed up beautifully and shaves great!

Yankee Cutlery/Lion-I bought this one shave ready but actually hated the edge on it, very harsh, so I worked on it from the 8K hone up. Now it's also a smooth cutter.

So what is it about these vintage razors that makes them so easy to hone and so capable of such a great-shaving edge? I have a couple new unhoned Dovos that I can't seem to do the same with.

I could post pictures, but you guys know what these look like. Mine are nothing special, except maybe the Robeson and the Lion, both of which came with nice scales.

I now call these four old razors my "Board of Elders"

Its the quality of the steel mostly. The poorer razor makers got a bad rep and went under so the ones that are still around now are, by and large, the good ones. There are exceptions of course!

It'll also depend on how well looked after it was by the previous owner(s). If they took good care of it, kept it dry and didnt cane it on the hones that'll make a real difference in how well it performs today and how easy it is to hone.

JMHO of course, but a good product well looked after will last a very long time. A cheap product or bad ownership will shorten the life hugely.

I see your point--I guess I'm wondering even why my old Dubl Duck and Robeson, honed by my unskilled hands feels so creamy when my professionally honed Dovos, which are great (no complaints!) just don't feel the same?

I don't think this is a mind-game, because I actually was a bit skeptical of my oldies, honed by myself, because I'd done some pretty bad honing and I've been very impressed with pro-honed blades.

Maybe I'm just delighted that at last my hones are making good blades rather than ruining them?

This has ruined my "rotation" because I keep wanting to shave with my "board of elders" rather than use the "right" razor for today.

But hey, it's fun and I almost want to broadcast to the world, "I HAD A GREAT SHAVE THIS MORNING!!!"

Lawson,

A good question and one that I’ve often wondered about too. I agree with the observation that older razors do have something that today’s models don’t have. I have two random thoughts:

Back in the pre Gillette days, straights were made by guys who used them and were sold to other guys who used them. There was nothing theoretical about it. Today, the majority of straights are purchased as a novelty. I’m not saying that DOVO doesn’t make a great razor but let’s face it- most of their customers probably don’t know what a great razor is. And do DOVO workers use them?

The second thought has something to do with art versus science. Back in the day, the razor smith probably had all sorts of arcane methods of inspecting his final product. He’d flex it, sniff it, taste it, listen to it ring when tapped. He might even- gasp- shave with it. Today, I suspect a great deal of QC is done by hitting the numbers- Forged at so many PSI. Heated to X degrees. Quenched to such and such temperature. Final hardness of blank. Numbers check out- Bingo, must be a good razor. And it is a good razor- just like all the other good razors made that day. But is it a great razor? See above

I remain &c,
LG Roy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LawsonStone

I don't think this is a mind-game, because I actually was a bit skeptical of my oldies, honed by myself, because I'd done some pretty bad honing and I've been very impressed with pro-honed blades.

Maybe I'm just delighted that at last my hones are making good blades rather than ruining them?

---

Here's my two cents--

I brew my own beer, and I just tasted the very first batch of beer two nights ago. I thought it was pretty damn good beer. My wife took about three sips, and my neighbor drank about half a bottle. The point is, I think the reason why I liked it so much better than the others, is because I made it. Just like your razors, they are blades that you honed, so maybe your perception is biased?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goaT

Here's my two cents--

I brew my own beer, and I just tasted the very first batch of beer two nights ago. I thought it was pretty damn good beer. My wife took about three sips, and my neighbor drank about half a bottle. The point is, I think the reason why I liked it so much better than the others, is because I made it. Just like your razors, they are blades that you honed, so maybe your perception is biased?

---

That's certainly a factor that can't be ignored but it doesn't cover all the bases. I had a friend, sadly now dead, who brewed beer. He knew he'd cracked it when he held a party and, when we who stayed over, woke up, we found his 10 gallon barrel totally empty and his fridge full of beer we'd all brought along but just not bothered drinking. I don't often disagree with Stubear but it's not just the steel IMO, there was a skill set amongst the old makers that is something that even now, is a joy to experience. They were damn good at what they did.

When it comes to bias, I suspect I wasn't, or was biased against these razors. I had, so far, been a total and abject failure in honing. I'd ruined my first shave-ready razor by stropping it sloppy and loose, and had to have it re-honed.

Then I managed to screw up some others on barber hones. BTW, 100 strokes on a barber hone is nearly always a bad idea!

So…I'd about decided to forget honing and stuck with 4 razors I'd gotten from SRD and protected them jealously. I also got my stropping technique right.

So I was working on these mainly to see there was any hope for me doing even touch-up honing.

So when I touched that Robeson Shur Edge to my cheek, it was a total and complete, and delightful, surprise. After four months of frustration, I had a razor that almost seemed to "melt" through my beard. So...whipped out the Dubl Duck and Wosty IXL that had been on my bench, finished and stropped them and shaved with them BOTH this AM…delighted squeal #2…

OTOH, I have been hacking away on an out-of-the-box Dovo and can't seem to get it "there." I do think there is something different about the steel, and probably something different about how the steel was worked on those old razors. They are wicked sharp, but somehow…kind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goaT

Here's my two cents--

I brew my own beer, and I just tasted the very first batch of beer two nights ago. I thought it was pretty damn good beer. My wife took about three sips, and my neighbor drank about half a bottle. The point is, I think the reason why I liked it so much better than the others, is because I made it. Just like your razors, they are blades that you honed, so maybe your perception is biased?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlanII

That's certainly a factor that can't be ignored but it doesn't cover all the bases. I had a friend, sadly now dead, who brewed beer. He knew he'd cracked it when he held a party and, when we who stayed over, woke up, we found his 10 gallon barrel totally empty and his fridge full of beer we'd all brought along but just not bothered drinking. I don't often disagree with Stubear but it's not just the steel IMO, there was a skill set amongst the old makers that is something that even now, is a joy to experience. They were damn good at what they did.

---

In my line of work, that elusive trait that separates the professional from the poser, is called passion...I marvel at it whenever I catch a glimpse of it. I just picked up some oldies(W&B, Reynolds, Higgins, and Morley) and I cannot wait to get home and begin this journey. Thank you all for your passion.

that's the whole point to Art I guess :) which includes the Art of Shaving ^_^

I may be able to add a little light on your experience. I too have a newer Dovo, my first straight that I bought new "shave ready". I later bought several razors and did as you did, honed them myself. I then thought I was better at honing than the "pro" that honed the Dovo Bismarck because the older razors left me more smooth and less irritated than the Dovo. What was the deal? As I have progressed in my knowledge and skills, I have learned this: My Dovo that was honed by the pro was so sharp that my bad form made me think it was the razor. Second is that I have learned that the newer razors are quite possibly a little harder steel. This is all based on shaving, honing, making razors, and listening.

What stones are you using to set the bevel & hone that Dovo?

I don't know what to say about all this..

I believe the steels are better today... More of a selection of alloys that can be tailored to specific needs... On the otherhand, today's corporate mindset generally demands using less expensive raw materials to maximize profits.
Machinery is better and more precise that in the past, but just as above, highly skilled labor is becoming harder and harder to obtain at any price, and training, as in an old school appreticeship program is virtually non-existant. The days of the craftsman performing a labor of love are at a close..
So, while today's blades could be a bit better than in bygone days, I don't believe that many are..

Steel, just like me, gets better with age!
Some say

I've never had a new razor-I have no idea what they are like.

Simple carbon steel is a delight as far as I'm concerned. I'm just not that interested in the flavor of the day high tech alloys.

i've given away a couple ducks to new honers because I found them to be so easy to hone. no warps or twists, rust or pits to complicate matters. Only straight forward sharpening that anyone can handle imho/ I'm sure there are dozens of other brands for which the same can be said.

Vintage razors were made of virgin steel fresh from the ground/foundry. These days, razors are more likely to be made from an '85 BMW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by red96ta

Vintage razors were made of virgin steel fresh from the ground/foundry. These days, razors are more likely to be made from an '85 BMW.

---

Funny that you should mention BMW recycling. The following is an excerpt from BMW cars ready for End-of-Life Vehicles Directive - letsrecycle.com which talks about the European End of Life Vehicles (ELV) Directive.

BMW's Recycling and Dismantling Centre, at Unterschleissheim near Munich, recycles about 2,000 vehicles a year and has allowed BMW to develop its vehicles so that they are almost completely recyclable.
It said: "According to the EU Directive, at least 85% of the end-of-life vehicle weight must be re-used or recycled from 2006. Only 5% of the residual weight may be brought to landfill from 2015. All BMW Group vehicles fulfil the Directive's recycling quotas. Metals have long been recycled. Today, glass and many large pure-grade plastic components are recovered."

One variable that can be counted on for today's commercial st8 razor makers is the lack of competition.
All the other variables mentioned are most likely true too regarding steel quality.
Kevin point on steel getting better over time(providing it was top quality material) makes sense too. Over time certain stresses in the metal might be relieved making metal more stable.

At one time in Solingen there were approx. 700 (yes, seven hundred) razor makers according to the Revisor site. Stiff competition forced them to make the best razors possible.

Another factor: a century ago everybody shaved with a straight so they had to be easy to use, i.e. easy to hone, easy to maintain sharpness and easy to shave with. A passable shave (smooth enough, no cuts) was what most users would be happy with. As most shavers nowadays are happy with a passable result (why else do so many guys still use electric shavers and disposable razors?)

Nowadays a couple of hobbyists still use straights. Hobbyists that require a BBS result. So makers nowadays produce for a different market and face fewer competitors.

I am relieved, at least, to discover that my experience is not some kind of delusion.

I love my shiney new pretty Dovos and the honemeisters' craft makes them fun to use.

Still, I find it so pleasurable to be working on one of my old-timers, knowing that it will take a great edge and feel good to shave with.

This thread inspired me to shave for the first time in a while with my Thiers Issard, bought about 2 years ago. Was a great shave this morning, the new guys are not half bad either.

Honestly, I doubt most people could tell a random vintage blade apart from a random current production blade - assuming both are quality blades that were properly honed. Sure there are differences, but other factors (like shave technique, for one) are much more important.

From what I have on hand, mostly vintage razors and a few Dovo's I have found that, besides shaving technique, there are three elements that effect the shave. First, the steel used to make the razor. No matter how well everything else is the steel has it's limits. Second, the hones used to sharpen the razor. Matching the hone's binder hardness and grit material to the steel has some effect on the edge and sometimes enough to notice. Lastly, the person honing the razor and how much effort they put into setting the bevel and polishing out the previous hone patterns. Even the same person can get different results on different days under the same razor and hone conditions.

Comparing apples to apples and using my vintage razors as a reference since it is the largest sample pool I have available I find some razors shave better than others, mostly by a small margin. Of the lesser performers I have found that I can tweak the edge some by using different finishing hones while some went back to refine the bevel some more on different hones and on different days. I find I have more patients on some days than others. Some were honed by others at meets and then again by me. In the end some are still better shavers than others.

In comparing your Dovo's to your vintage blades I would suggest re-honing the Dovo's yourself to eliminate that variable and then compare the Dovo's to your vintage blades again. I am curious to hear of your results.

Good luck!

I'm a huge fan of Wostenholm razors. I've now got 3 shave ready and one that still needs honing. I reckon they put alot of quite expensive razors to shame when it comes to the quality of the shave they give.

The old razors seem to be better made and seem better suited to the job they are made for (IMHO).
I started with a modern Dovo, before becoming acquainted with Bengall :cry:
I now own 3 Bengall razors, and sold my Dovo :)