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I have a question about razors. What is the difference in points on the edge of the blade as far as shaving; what would be the advantages? Would it matter which one to use for a beginner?
I would appreciate any advice in what to look for in buying a razor. Also what I would need to touch up the razor to keep it sharp.
Thanks
Generally, some Chromium Oxide (CrOx) spray or paste on a designated strop and/or some diamond spray on a designated strop will do for light touch ups. Or are you thinking hones?Quote:
Originally Posted by binder
Sorry, I can't help you with the different kinds of points.
In my opinion when selecting a razor the real choice is between carbon and stainless steel. Carbon is easier to work with but rusts and stainless doesn't rust as easily but is harder to work with. I tend to preferr the stainless becuase I can't use it during the week, got to shave 98% asleep. On the week-ends I have more time to get going so I have time to work with the straight.
Your question isn't very clear as my answer will be another interpretation to those above it. A round 'pointed' razor would be better for a beginner rather than a 'Spike' or a 'Square' end razor. A spike or square is more likely to catch an unwary noob and give a cut. So for a first razor I'm going to recommend a round nose or maybe even a French tip razor. To keep it sharp all you'll need to start with is a cheap strop. Once you've finished cutting the crap out of that one and don't think you'll cut up any more strops I'd recommend another one to keep it sharp, but not one of mine, they're not for a new bloke to learn on, they won't take a beginners major mistakes too well. Is that the advice you were looking for?
Mick
Both toe types need to be respected and you can open yourself up with either. The rounded toe is more forgiving for a beginner, but don't think you can be sloppy because you are using one - you can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by binder
Plenty of people started with a spike point because that's what they had. There is no doubt you have to pay attention to the toe more with a spike. But you should be anyhow.
The real benefit to a spike for me is that I can do fine work with that point right under my nose that is more difficult with a round toe. So far in my rotation this week I've had 3 spikes and 2 rounds. You get used to both.
I will say this - it will be easier to transition from a spike to a round than the other way. If all you have access to is a spike - I would not avoid getting started because of it.
Hope that helps.
David
David
+1. I started out with a round point, and subsequently bought several spike points thereafter. The RP is a little easier to learn with IMO, as not having the spike point seems to be one less thing to manage when learning. However, as David mentioned, a RP razor is just as apt to bite you if you get sloppy. Having said that, I've only had two bad cuts thus far, and both were from a spike point razor that has a ridiculously sharp spike and was handled by a careless operator (that'd be me). I've had no trouble with the rest of my spike point razors, and personally prefer them to my RP razors, both in function and appearance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alembic
I agree with Mick about the strop. Get a cheap one to start and learn the basics. You'll cut the crap out of your first one, so don't go buying a nice strop to start. Once you've got the hang of stropping, then think about adding Cr02/diamond spray & hones.
Best of luck to you.
Larry
In the Wiki you are going to find quite a bit of really good info about starting this hobby...
From the first razor recommendation and why to all the info necessary for the very first shave...
In fact this is the Wiki's strong suit it really does have a huge amount of info packed in there for the Beginner and it has all been well researched...
Straight Razor Place Wiki:Books/Beginners Guide - Straight Razor Place Wiki
And that is just the very start
My recommendation has always been the same for first razors
SHAVE READY !!!! from a Honemeister that you have total confidence in...
6/8 Round nose, Half hollow grind...
The reason is simple, it is the dead center razor...
6/8 is the middle size and a tiny bit easier to strop then a 5/8 for a beginner
Half Hollow grind, again dead center and the slightly stiffer feel is easier for a beginners tentative shaving strokes..
Round nose for the Illusion of safety :D trust me it will cut ya just as fast..
From this dead center start you can then decide what direction you want to go next...
Also, this razor I am talking about is available new....
I really like the french point on my DD Wonderedge. I agree that round or french would be a great way to start. I have 3 other DDs that are all spikes, and if I don't stay focused I seem to dig that spike into the same place on my face each time! Rule number 1: pay very close attention to the job at hand.
Enjoy!
Massive +1. If I had read this post three years ago, my trip up the learning curve would have been much easier. As others have siad, don't get too hung up on the points. Rounded is more forgiving but, take your eye off the toe and bad things can still happen. Good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
This shopping list for beginners might help: Shopping list for beginners - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Glen, I am looking forward to the day that I can give simple sage-like advice like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Brilliant!
David
I took the question the same and couldn't agree more...round point means both earlobes likely still present after first few shaves. I used a relatively cheap Illinois strop (sliced her all to Hades BTW) to get started...she still hangs as a reminder of how little I knew then. (My wife serves to remind me of how little I know now...)Quote:
Originally Posted by MickR
I just bought what was available I found that a lot of listing did not describe the grind. Either that or half hollow is hard to find.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
That's what they're for... :nono:Quote:
Originally Posted by kfralin
:rofl2:
Enjoy the Str8 experience :gl:
I'm pretty much in agreement with everything above: here's the summary:
Carbon steel - I'm not sure I see the advantage of stainless so long as you look after your razor, and it can be troublesome to hone.
5/8 - to my mind that's the dead centre size with all due deference to Glen, bearing in mind that the really wide razors which you see here are uncommon on my side of the Atlantic. This size is easy to use under the nose - well, comparatively.
Half hollow - hmmm, I hesitated here because I now find full hollows easiest to use, but it's what I started with and it worked for me.
Shave ready - not negotiable: a must.
Round point - but no, it won't stop you cutting yourself. The thing to avoid is the square, spike or French nose with an edge which hasn't been softened at the point, because those can be spiteful wee beasties if you're not on top form.
Strop - a cheap one, for the reasons rehearsed above, but make it a longish one if you can.
Other stuff - good soap and a brush capable of working up a decent lather, and your choice of aftershave treatment. Canned foam or gel is not the stuff to use with a straight razor, because it doesn't supply the necessary protection.
One general point: very cheap razors are likely to be a false economy, and there's a list of some of the ones to avoid in the Wiki. On the other hand, there's not much point in going straight to the top of the range either, because the law of diminishing returns applies. A reasonably priced razor from a reputable manufacturer, supplied in good fettle by a good vendor, be it new or vintage, will get you off to a fine start. Some time spent investigating this forum will turn up plenty of specific recommendations.
Take care, but enjoy yourself.
GSSIXGUN gave some good advice. If that razor is not in your budget or hard to find get one that is on the recommended list ( Good Straight Razor Brands - Straight Razor Place Wiki ), fits your budget and is aesthetically pleasing to you. You will learn to use it just fine.
Thanks for everyone for the replies. That gave me some things to think about. I'm also reading through the wiki. I think I like the French point more for looks, but definitely something with a rounded point. Would it be easy to trim around the mustache?
I was thinking of what finishing hone I would need to keep an edge, and how good the finishing pastes were or if they were necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowRain
That would depend on your preference in hones or finishing pastes but if you know how your purchase was honed then you can try to recreate the same thing by buying the same media. Unfortunately you can't buy the skill that went into the honing. The strop will be your biggest friend & maybe enemy at first. Do lots of research & lots of practice to develop muscle memory for the correct actions. Stropping on a single sheet of newspaper is not a bad learning tool. http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...ewspaper+stropQuote:
Originally Posted by binder
Quote:
Originally Posted by binder
If, like me you sport a moustache and goatee, I use a small pair of scissors to trip the mo' along the line of my lip and I use the razor (a round point) to define the outside edges and also to shave away the stray hairs in the little gaps in growth under the bottom lip and, (for my weird face) the gap in growth caused by the shadow of my big nose :D...The philtrum area. I tend to get just a few stray hairs there, so the razor is used to whisk them off too.
Mick
Size:
I had a LOT easier time with a 5/8 size when I was starting. The 5/8 size fit under my nose, into the curve between my lower lip and chin, and into the hollows of my neck much easier. After I got used to shaving with a straight razor, I could use a 6/8 in all those "problem areas", but the 5/8 was still easier. Downsides ? The 6/8 was EASY to stop. The 5/8 took 3-4 sessions worth of practice before it became as easy. The 6/8 also had more weight, and mowed down wiskers in the flat and easy to shave areas easier. "Easier" translated into not needing any "running start" to have some momentum, and automatically using less pressure, which meant less razor burn. After 20 or so shaves, I finally learned to stop applying pressure with the 5/8's though. Also, when the 5/8 gets a little dull, it starts "needing" momentum to cut well. This may be an advantage since continuing to cut with a non-so-sharp 6/8 could cause razor burn (depending on how dull you let it get).
Point:
The roundpoint fit into the hollows of my neck alongside my trachea easily and without trauma. I only tried a squarepoint after I had some experience, but still found I had to be careful with it on my neck (too many hollows). The rest of my face was easy, and I only ever got a scratchy feeling, no cuts or scratch lines. If you have hollow cheeks, you might have to be careful there too. The downside ? I can edge my sideburns on the sideways pass with the roundpoint, but I have to watch where the lather is being removed and "project" where the line will be when I get to my sideburn. It's easy on the first pass, but difficult if I miss a wisker or two and want to go back and get them (no lather this time). I also use the roundpoint to get the wiskers that grow all the way up into the base of my nostrils. Both the sideburns and nostrils were easier with the squarepoint, but it's not very hard to use the roundpoint for precise trimming. You get used to how far back from the tip the edge starts pretty quickly.
Grind:
I firmly believe a firmer grind (like a 1/4 or 1/2 grind) is very helpful for a beginner. I only got to use something other than a full grind after I had some experience. The firmer grind gave my noticeably less razor burn when I used too much pressure, as compared to the full grind. After I saw this, I made an effort to lessen the pressure I was using (which I only THOUGHT was low before), and 5 shaves later, my technique improved to the point where the full grind was easy too.
Availability:
I had an awefully hard time finding a 6/8 half hollow grind recommended in the Wiki. If you don't want to watch the classifieds until something nice but affordable comes along, I'd recommend picking up a new 5/8 or 6/8 full hollow Dovo. Pick the one you like the looks of, they all shave well !
If I had to do it over again, I would still collect many razors as I do now but I would stick to a certain blade style. Now I have roundtips and french points and I have to get used to a blade every time I rotate once a week. I don't mind this but I do like my round tips better.
I would have stuck to good roundtips and maybe shoulderless blades.
I don't know about abrasives as I've never used them. Just my Norton 6/8 and my Dovo Russian strop.
Maintanance isn't hard. With a rotation 15 razors, I haven't had to hone in 3 years.:rock:
Ernest
The recommendation for a razor seems to be 6/8 for a beginner, but does the size depend on the size of the face. I have a thinner face and a narrow neck with a hollow on the sides of the adam's apple. Would this make a difference?
Hi Binder,
JohnG10's post is excellent and comprehensive. I just bought my first brand-new razor last month, about 6 years too late. I also have a dangerous Adam's apple, and think the 5/8 with a rounded tip is a good idea for navigating around that. The entry-level Dovos are pretty affordable, and spend extra for the postfactory honing. That way you'll know right away how good the straight shave can (and should) feel.
There seems to be a greater variety of 5/8 blades, too. Whatever you do, don't start with a used wedge. Mine has brought me only pain, burn, and weeks of fruitless honing followed by more pain, burn, and weeks of fruitless honing.
Unless you knock the blade against the sink, you'll just need a strop. I've never used dressing on mine.
When I started using the straights, I kept my disposables around to take care of the dangerous spots (chin dimple and Adam's apple). I shaved the broad, flat bits (cheeks and along my jawline) with the straight, then took care of the touchy bits the old familiar way. It took me about 6 months before I felt safe working over the apple.
Get Lynn's DVD, or hunt around the site for videos of people shaving. It really helps to see it done.
Good luck and have fun!