Engleswerk find

I went another round of antique stores and came across this Engleswerk that I thought would be worthy of mention.

I examined the blade with a magnifying glass, no nicks that I could see.

The handle was yellow, could have been bone, no cracks, no major rust in the pins. The blade, petina with just a few horizontal scratches from heel to toe.

But the handle, it was intricately designed, I noticed what looked like animals, a cross, a sunrise, it was a pretty piece.

THe seller wanted like 75 for it.

What do you think? Too much?


I don't want to make a habit of describing these razors to people here because theres no way to appraise one, but it was in much better condition than the one that I saw the other day the lady wanted 32 for.

Eric
Rhythmicons

Please post a picture in a good quality.

It's kinda like you said, "I don't want to make a habit of describing these razors to people here because theres no way to appraise one"

However, one word: Those scales sure sound interesting. They may be so pretty that they appeal to people that collect straight razors. It may also be that the scales are not original. Or perhaps they are. They may be so special and pretty the shop owner set an extra high price because of them..

Just remember that we, as the shaving bunch, generally value the other end a lot higher :p

A picture is worth 1000 words. What you discribe sounds interesting, would like to see it.

Yes without a picture its like saying you saw BIGFOOT. :rofl2: Not to mention we just love razor porn.:tu

picture please??

I recommend spending time on eBay. watch alot of auctions on straights, lookup alot of completed listings, you'll get a feel for what the market value is, at least the market value on ebay. My experience is that it is usually higher on eBay than at a local flea market/auction, but close to the same for a local antique shop.
After doing this you will develop your own value list. For instance, you could say that a good shaver, not fancy but professionally honed, brand new can go for about $90-100. Therefore, you may not want to pay more than $75 for a razor that is claimed to be 'shave ready', but is kind of plain. The real fancy restored razors seem to go for about $225-300, with a new balsa strop. So what would it cost to pay one of these guys to restore one for you? Subtract the price.
If you are going to restore it yourself, I would be wary of paying too high of a price for any razor until I have had experience with a few. For instance, I bought a few of the Bay, but for around $10 each. First one I tried I ruined the blade. I also have broken a couple of handles trying to disassemble them. There is a steep learning curve in all of this.
Asking someone else if they think it is a good price probably won't tell you much. It all depends on why you/they want it. I personally don't value the figurative celluloid handles very highly. I like inlays, and bolsters. But that is just me. Someone else might hate inlays, but is trying to collect every different color of Celluloid there is. Then there is the issue of the blade. To some gus it's the name, others it's the shape.
Sorry to go on for awhile here. What I am trying to say is only you can determine if it is a good price, and the determination is based on why you want it and how much it means to you, and what your means are. Spend a few days on eBay, you'll quickly find a reasonable assessment of the market prices, but only YOU can determine what your price is.
Just my opinion. Hope this helps, if not, just ignore me.

Alright Gents,
I absolutely couldn't resist, and I joined he club.

Here are some pics:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...1_876134_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2569915_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7731935_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._4700028_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._4527290_n.jpg


http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1604446_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7076304_n.jpg

[IMG]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._4444978_n.jpg[/IMG]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5362081_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6595382_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3440821_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._4719376_n.jpg

Now Heres what I think about this razor....i know nothing about trying to appraise them so before any of you comment, tell me if Im in the right direction.


1. I want to say that these probably aren't the original scales/pins. It doesn't seem to want to close as easy as some of the others I have handled. Its like you have to close it very carefully, but they do look really really nice and detailed.

2. I don't think its the original box. THe guy told me that it was, and I couldn't get a good photo of the lid, but its an Engelswerk blade in a different companies box.

Im thinking that someone restored it at one point with some custom scales and sold it.

I paid 75 bucks for it. Based on your opinions, do you think I got screwed?

THe lid on the box reads
Coln a/ Rhein
Marzellenstr. 27

Rob Assman
Dampfschleiferei



Eric

I dont think you over paid. Those scales, wether original or not are fantastic.

You got a good deal, those are the original scales as you can see from my razor like yours. There is a story that goes with the scales something about a patron saint of hunting in Germany I have it somewhere

WOW!
Not bad for a newbie's first pick huh? The odd thing is that I live in a really small town in Arkansas where you really don't see stuff like this a lot as opposed to a big city where these might be more common.

At first, I paid the most attention to the blade than anything else, but I was just sitting here looking at the scales, and it seems like one side is almost totally intertwined. For instance, it starts at the bottom with the powder horn, tied to the wreath by ropes. THe wreath in the cattleskull. Coming out of the skull is the cross with rays of light, and above it, a rifle and crossbow crossing and above that a shield with spears and other things that go into a leafy motif.
Almost everything from the ground up I imagined must have had some kind of symbolism, at first my instinct was perhaps masonic in origin.

Then on the back there are two men on horses and two dogs persuing a deer.

What I am really interested in is what the number 57 means on the blade, the engravers notch on the monkeytail, also the material of the scales and most importantly, if the blade looks like its in good condition.


So 75 is a good price then? I sure hope so because times like these, we don't always have $ to go around for stuff like this.

Thanks everyone!


Eric

Oh and I would really love to learn the story behind the scales, if you find the time to dig it up.

Can anyone tell me if these pics are good enough to determine the condition of the blade? Im also wondering if anyone can tell me anything else about it, how old it may be, etc.


Thanks,
Im very glad that I found this forum. My wife has noticed that ive been bitten by the bug.


Eric

Nice scales!

As for the box, I'm more of a leg man, so... ;)

There's an Assmann razor! How about that. Now I want one.

:D

Beautiful razor, good find.

VERY NICE RAZOR! Now, these scales are really something else! Lucky dog....nice find:D

Very nice, really like the scales.

Ignore what I said in the PM about Engels razors. That was before I saw your photos. Unique scales can go for a ridiculously wide variety of prices. Somewhere there are at least two collectors that often pay very high prices for scales they decide they like. I've never seen ones like yours before.

Found the story behind the scales and a pic of another set in black, but not an Engleswerk blade.


The Legend of St. Hubertus Legend has it Hubertus, born in the seventh century, seeks comfort and distraction on lonely hunts after the death of his beloved wife Princess Floribana in childbirth.
One Christmas Eve, he encounters on one of these hunts the wondrous image of a splendid red albino stag carrying a shining cross between its antlers. Through this vision, Hubert is moved to transform his life. He lays down his high ranks of office and distributes his wealth among the poor and the church.
St. Hubertus has been the patron saint of hunters and animal protectionists (Tierschutzverein) in northern Europe who attempt to honor him by sharing their feasts with townspeople, holding charity fundraising festivals and being responsible for the care of animals on their lands, both domestic and wild.
When a buck was hunted, hunters through the ages have placed a pallium, or a small branch of evergreen, or if none is available, oak, in the mouth of the fallen game. This is done as an offering of the Last Bite, signifying a final salute to the animal and symbolically giving back to GOD " the soul which I receive from Him." If food was scarce in the winter, he would go out to the forest to provide it for the animals.
He valued his loyal hunting dogs though often they went to the forest not to hunt, but to be a part its wonder. Through honoring the forest's creatures, he honored the creator. He felt a responsibility to all animals and could not let an animal suffer needlessly.

Very interesting!

Is this a celluloid handle? Have you figured out how to date the blade? What does the 57 stand for?

THanks for your shedding some light into this...i was thinking St. Eustice. A google search for "German patron saint of hunting" came up with a few names, but not that one.


Thanks!

Eric

The razor is in medium condition the edge looks as it hone up fine. To me $75 seems a little steep.
What I have found shopping antique stores is that with a razor such as this one the seller has deemed the value based on the ornate scales not the blade also antique dealers like to see a nice patina on the blade. Where we are more so looking for quality in the blades not so much in the razors scales.
But I do have quite a bit of luck shopping antique stores for razors and find alot of good deals. Keep hunt you will find some good deals, Im sure of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhythmicons

Very interesting!

Is this a celluloid handle? Have you figured out how to date the blade? What does the 57 stand for?

THanks for your shedding some light into this...i was thinking St. Eustice. A google search for "German patron saint of hunting" came up with a few names, but not that one.


Thanks!

Eric

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I have no clue what the 57 stands for mine has it as well. Careful cleaning or the lettering on the blade face will be gone. The blade is also magnetized I dont know why though. Seems I dont know much of anything sorry

I tell you this, I had a little 4/8 Engleswerk and it was the very first razor that I finally learned to hone well. It acquired a fantastic almost dangeroulsy keen edge! Later it got traded off. I kinda miss it now.

Something else, the name of the location Solingen, Foche was used BEFORE World War One. (Please correct me if I am wrong guys). You have a great razor. Enjoy the wonder of having something old and of good quality. It is beautiful and will be a great conversation piece to entertain in-laws and other people you want to impress. It will also yield fantastic shaves.

If you are right about the pre WWI history of this....what a find! You know, considering what all went down in that time period especially with Germany's debt and the post WWII situation, its hard to imagine that Dovo survived at all!

Does anyone know of any resources available where I can look this up. All that I coudl find about CW Engels was just a year list, that made me think that the razor was dated in the 30's.

No matter when it's dated Im glad I came across it. I should have known better than to think I wasn't going to start collecting razors lolol.



The guy in the antique store thought that Engelswork was where it was made, told me it didn't have a name on it. When I examined the blade with the super macro camera, I figured that it 75 bucks was probably his safety net and that with a little buffing out, this razor would be worth more than that.

Its value isn't really all that appealing to me (as long as I didn't overpay) because Im not inclined to sell things. I have all kinds of collections, knives included. Id like to get this thing restored.


Eric