Are All Sheffields the Same?

OK ... I assume the answer is "no", but wanted some input from others. I have purchased two Wade & Butchers ... one a near wedge (really crappy shaver I purchased from the SRP classifieds for $150), and one a hollow ground with custom scales that is a "pretty good" shaver. I am really looking for one very nice Sheffield razor for shaving (and to some extent, collectibility), and have noticed that it seems the W&B's pull a premium, and was wondering why? Are they really better than Wostenholm's, Joseph Rodgers, Joseph Elliot, etc., or is the name (i.e., "Butcher") the attraction? Also, I think I tend to like hollow to extra hollows more than wedges ... I have a quarter hollow that's a pretty nice shaver, but I think my preference is more toward the hollows.

Any thoughts? Just looking to make a nice purchase, rather than the trial and error of many purchases.

Is W&B the best of the Shefflelds?
Do the Sheffield Extra Hollows and Hollows give a better shave? (I know much of this may be personal preference)
Are the 19th century razors different/better than the 20th, or are the 19th century just more collectible?

Thanks,
Vic

The perceived quality of a razor has as much to do with the skill of the person honing it as it does with the razor itself. I suggest you have the W&B near wedge that doesn't shave well re-honed by someone else with substantial time and experience in honing. When the honing quality is taken out if the equation you can then compare blade quality with more accuracy.

I'll answer your first question with a no, not all Sheffields are the same, as with all razors, different grinds give you different things.

As far as W&Bs being the best Sheffields (totally subjective of course) my answer would be no as well. While they are excellent, other Sheffields I've tried, even very obscure ones, are as good. I currently shave with a John Pitts, Marvill Regan & Co., a Hoyland, two Joseph Fentons (one quarter hollow the other full hollow), Joseph Smith, W.H. Gilchrist and several Wostenholms and W&Bs and they all shave great.

I would agree with Joed.. It has taken me 3 months of honing (on and off) my first near wedge to get it where it will shave my face ( still not completely comfortable yet ) they are a bear to learn to hone. They also require a different technique to shave with than a hollow too I found.

As far as apples to apples I have used a couple different Sheffield based hollows and they all are nice razors.

In terms of wedge vs hollow ground, its total personal preference. Some guys prefer one over the other, and others like both.

Sheffield razors are good shavers by and large, and as long as they are honed well they should give a good shave.

They dont tend to like the high grit synthetics much though. I keep the strokes on my 16k Shapton to a minimum (I do 10 rather than my usual 20) and get onto my natural finisher pretty quickly on the older Sheffields as this seems to give a better edge.

Over and above that we're getting into "Whats the best razor?" territory and there are so many personal variables and preferences to it that its almost impossible to answer! :)

I have about half a dozen Sheffied razors in my own rotation and they are all superb shavers, amongst my best, and I wouldnt get rid of them for anything. Some are wedges and some are hollows, and they've also been honed different ways. I have some that I prefer the feel of over others, but they are all good.

[QUOTE=Troggie;674576] They also require a different technique to shave with than a hollow too I found. QUOTE]

Troggie,

Can you expound on the different technique? The razor that shaves poorly was honed by one of our honemeisters (per the seller), whom I will never name, because of all the other extraordinary honing they have done for me otherwise. Given your comment, I am wondering if my typical technique that results in a successful shave is causing my problem with the near wedge. As I said, using a quarter grind LeGrelot hasn't been a problem, so I'm kind of wondering is the difference blade angle?

By the way, the seller of the poorly shaving razor has agreed to have the honemeister take a second look, and see what he can do.

Also, thanks for the input on the Sheffields. As I have no experience with them, wanted some feedback from folks who have experience. I will likely start looking at some of the other brands as well as the W&Bs.

Thanks,
Vic

Thanks, Stu on the input regarding natural vs. synthetic stones. I'll focus on my Coti and Escher for Sheffield touchups, and save the Naniwa for my other razors.

I find for my face the angles are drastically different. I almost have to lay the wedge flat against my face where with the hollows I use between a 30 to 45 degree angle depending on the razor and area I am shaving. If I use the same angle on a wedge it doesn't cut for crud and pulls a lot.

Every ones face is different though and I have seen some posts here as well as other wet shaving boards that some people just can't use a wedge no matter how long they try or how sharp the razor is.

I fall in the "I am not all that partial to Sheffield steel category" :)
Nothing wrong with them at all, I agree with Stu and I use a Coticule to finish them... But out of nearly 100 personal razors, I have a Grand Total of 2 Sheffield blades, my first was a hollow grind Bengal, and the second is a W&B Special, also hollow grind, both are great shavers, but not even in my top 50 as to personal favorites...

There is nothing wrong with narrowing you selection of blades down to what really works for you, and concentrating on owning those... Just make sure you at least try some of the other stuff out....Heck if you try a few and they don't work for you, then sell them in the Classifieds and buy a different kind...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Troggie

I find for my face the angles are drastically different. I almost have to lay the wedge flat against my face where with the hollows I use between a 30 to 45 degree angle depending on the razor and area I am shaving. If I use the same angle on a wedge it doesn't cut for crud and pulls a lot.

Every ones face is different though and I have seen some posts here as well as other wet shaving boards that some people just can't use a wedge no matter how long they try or how sharp the razor is.

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Awesome ... thanks, much. I'll try that tomorrow, and see what happens. I'll feel really silly if that does the trick, as I have suggested that the razor shaves like crap and, holy cow, maybe I'll find that the problem is in the hand of the user ... can't imagine when that's happened before! :banghead:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I fall in the "I am not all that partial to Sheffield steel category" :)

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Tsk tsk.

PErsonally I think they are the high point in razor history. Joseph Rodgers is my favorite brand though I really like most Sheffields. Apart from their edge, they generally have much more interesting spine and tang design. The German designs are usually more... efficient.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Tsk tsk.

PErsonally I think they are the high point in razor history. Joseph Rodgers is my favorite brand though I really like most Sheffields. Apart from their edge, they generally have much more interesting spine and tang design. The German designs are usually more... efficient.

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:D

And this actually is the best part of our hobby, we have a CHOICE !!!!!

Thanks, Glen ... I think that's why I'm looking to make one more Sheffield purchase to see if I will like them. So far, I've focused on the W&Bs, but maybe my last shot at Sheffield will be any of the more "Celebrated" Sheffields (maybe a Rodgers or Wostenholm or Elliott), in a more hollow grind. I'll also try to adapt my technique to the near wedge, and check results. I really like the historic appeal of the Sheffields, and the shapes are classic, and the etching will stay much longer than the various "washes", so I am intriged ... but IF the shave doesn't work for me, I'll stop at the ones I have.

Thanks much!

You know, this is a hobby that is loaded to the hilt with variables that affect how any one particular shave performs - both in quality and comfort.

Prep, stropping, lather building, shaving and post treatment all contribute to the overall experience. I have found that I have razors that like uber lather, and razors that like just a good soap.

Try it all and don't fall for price hype. It's DD's yesterday, W&B's today and who knows tomorrow.

My best shaver in terms of closeness and comfort is a Bengall sheffield.

I find quite a difference between them. Of course there are bad ones, but there are also very good ones. Even the (to my mind) under-rated Kropp razors give an excellent shave, and Bengalls are mostly excellent, depending on the vintage. Some (later Pipe razors, for example) are well able to take a high grit finish, but I do agree that most will not. Not that this seems a problem - most of them respond to a pasted strop very well (most of the vintage strops I have seen have had some sort of high-grit compound incorporated in them) and there are a lot of home-grown instructions for strop dressings from the late 1800s that incorporate substances around or in excess of 30k.

I think the Shefield chapter was a 'Golden Age' of razors - different metals, designs, formulas - a veritable treasure trove.

Regards,
Neil

I have a Rogers 1/2 hollow and i can get a killer edge on it. And i would get a Greaves for a last try at Sheffields, they out shave any WB i own.JMHO

I would agree with the earlier post that the Sheffields I have honed don't seem to work well off of a synthetic hone and I don't know why. I do think that for me they are easier to hone and get a decent edge from and to me that is part of their allure. I do think they take a little getting used to and above all in all things straight razor. Patience.

Razor prices are like the stock market. If you have more buyers than sellers the price rises. Also if buyers believe one make is a mythical beast of magical shaving ability the price reflects that. Unfortunately the buyers honing & shaving ability is rarely accounted for. I cannot understand why a razor by Wade & Butcher would be better than any other Sheffield or vice versa unless one has crumbly corroded steel & the other is in good condition with good geometry.
There is of course the "personal preference" thing but the razor must shave well before any other factors are considered. So far it sounds like your experience with wedges is limited. It may be the razor or it maybe your technique. Sort those 2 factors out then decide on what you "prefer".

Tuxedo7,

As others have said, Sheffield was no different than any other place of manufacture - some blades are excellent, some are crap :)

Often, due to the visual methods used in the heat-treating process, there seems (within a given manufacturer) to be a lot of variance in the final blades hardness & temper. Some will be 'soft' others bastard hard !

I have two (2) W&B wedges - one is a very poor shaver, and the other (from Mr Neil Miller) is an excellent shaver ! (Luckily all my other Sheffields are very good shavers too :))

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

I have see lots of pictures of W&B razors some look fantastic and some look like the person who made it had a skin full. My view on the W&B is that because they were for export there might have been a few duffers in there because the customers were so far away they could get away with shipping the odd bodged razor but in the most part they are well liked in the states so there must have been quite a few good ones.
As for the Joseph Rodgers & Sons they should have a consistant standard because they had the responsibility of having a Royal Warrant and all the companys that I know that have one all sell good stuff.

Tabasco sauce anyone? yep even McIlhenny Tabasco has got a Royal Warrant they got it last year april 2009 The Queen has been putting it in her Bloody Marys for years so its about time they got one.

FWIW --

The Joseph Rodgers "Royal Razor" that I have shaves nicely. As the previous post says, "Royal Cutler" should mean something for the quality of the blade.

Charles

My rule of thumb is, if it comes from Sheffield and looks retrievable, I buy it. So far, so good. (Necessary qualifier, I apply this to any German or French blade, too).