John Pitts Сelebrated, wedge, Sheffield - pressed handle

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10-31-2010, 04:37 PM
Traskrom

John Pitts Сelebrated, wedge, Sheffield - pressed handle

That's my recent purchase, John Pitts Сelebrated Sheffield, most likely 1830-1840, wedge and absolutely stunning handle.

http://traskrom.users.photofile.ru/p.../140591002.jpg

http://traskrom.users.photofile.ru/p.../140591003.jpg
10-31-2010, 05:24 PM
str8fencer

Stunning razor, grats!
10-31-2010, 05:30 PM
holli4pirating

That is an interesting piece. The scales look older than the date you guessed, but the tail looks newer. And I'd bet the blade was reground too.

Very cool find.
10-31-2010, 05:36 PM
manah

You're right.
The razor isn't so old, John Pitts 1850-1875.
I've read about such scales at that period, Robert A.Doyle wrote about them.
10-31-2010, 06:10 PM
Traskrom

Quote:

Originally Posted by manah

Robert A.Doyle wrote about them.

yep, page 29 and 31, almost identical blades, dated 1830-1840

Quote:

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

And I'd bet the blade was reground too

what makes you think so? it is true wedge BTW
10-31-2010, 06:14 PM
Croaker

Beautiful scales! Congratulations. Planning to shave with it? I would be afraid.
10-31-2010, 06:18 PM
Traskrom

I have more than enough razors to shave with, this one will be out of shaving rotation for sure :D.
10-31-2010, 06:20 PM
holli4pirating

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traskrom

what makes you think so? it is true wedge BTW

There is no way that razor is a true wedge. I can see the hollowing very clearly in the photos you posted.

I can also see a thin bevel and thin wear on the spine. If it was a true wedge, the entire blade would touch the hone.
10-31-2010, 06:32 PM
Sailor

Very beautiful and rare old timer you have there.

Can you tell are those nice made of pressed horn or tortoise?
10-31-2010, 06:39 PM
Traskrom

Quote:

Originally Posted by holli4pirating

There is no way that razor is a true wedge. I can see the hollowing very clearly in the photos you posted.

I can also see a thin bevel and thin wear on the spine. If it was a true wedge, the entire blade would touch the hone.

How about this? I believe you seen this book. :D Those razors are wedge too

http://traskrom.users.photofile.ru/p.../140593845.jpg
10-31-2010, 06:43 PM
Traskrom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor

Very beautiful and rare old timer you have there.

Can you tell are those nice made of pressed horn or tortoise?

Most likely horn. I don't think it is tortoise, doesn't looks like it
10-31-2010, 06:47 PM
holli4pirating

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traskrom

How about this? I believe you seen this book. :D Those razors are wedge too

The caption says those are wedge shaped blades. Perhaps in that book, as on the forum, the term "wedge" is used quite loosely and encompass true wedges, near wedges, and quarter hollows.

That loose definition contrasts with the strict definition in the wiki. - http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...ths_and_grinds

I don't mind the loose definition of "wedge," but it just seems wrong to me to use the loose definition for "true wedge" or "full wedge." True/full, at least to me, implies that you are using the strict definition.
10-31-2010, 06:54 PM
Traskrom

How about discount for ESL? ;)
10-31-2010, 07:07 PM
Bayamontate

http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...s-dscn2768.jpg

Mine is a true wedge. This is a great shaver, too bad scales were not original when I got it, they were black plastic.
11-01-2010, 07:43 AM
Traskrom

holli4pirating
In fact you are right, this is near wedge blade. In Henckels chart shape #II
06-14-2013, 06:04 PM
Traskrom

2 Attachment(s)

I did some work on handles, this is how they looks now.

Attachment 132922

Attachment 132923

Hi res pictures, 10mb each. Think before downloading

one

two
06-14-2013, 11:45 PM
OrSh

Great work on those scales! How did you manage to clean them like that? I love the razor as well!
One little thing, it looks like the blade has a little crack near it's heel :boohoo:
06-15-2013, 05:42 AM
Traskrom

Name of this crack is "age"
06-15-2013, 08:54 AM
ScienceGuy

Quote:

what makes you think so? it is true wedge BTW

(on the question of a regrind) A couple things are pointers. With a blade this old, look at the condition of the blade face. For a razor to have so much pitting and wear on the tang and to be rescaled at some point, it is not consistent with what would be a factory finish on the blade. Also on the tang you can see there is a lot of pitting but the tang still looks ground and shiny. This was apparently somewhat common, to regrind the back areas as well as the blade itself. Also the line between the angles on the tang is pretty rounded. This almost always happens with soft wheel buffing that is done today, but can happen with grinding that does not perfectly set those angles as well. Original pieces would have a crisp line there. Finally, from your second hi resolution picture, it looks like there are two sets of hone wear. This would be consistent with original hone wear and hone wear after a new angle was set by regrinding.

A very clever old repair on the pivot end though. Neat scales, would love to have seen them with their original blade.

edit: saw the recent replies and thought this was a newer thread. My bad
06-15-2013, 10:01 AM
Traskrom

This is 3 years old thread.. That horse is dead already..
:deadhorse:
06-15-2013, 01:07 PM
Jonah

Dead horse or not, that is a really nice piece you have there. The scales are really unique.
06-15-2013, 01:48 PM
OrSh

Still waiting to hear about the cleaning proccess
06-15-2013, 09:22 PM
gugi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traskrom

This is 3 years old thread.. That horse is dead already..
:deadhorse:

But you're the one who attempted the resurrection with post #16.
06-16-2013, 07:17 AM
Traskrom

Yes, you right. I did. And talked about handles. :)
05-16-2014, 12:23 PM
barberbrett

hello, I actually just picked up the same razor, and mine is a wedge. Mine also has a barber notch. Unfortunately the one I got did not come with such nice scales! It has home made wood ones lol.
05-16-2014, 01:19 PM
Neil Miller

Quote:

Originally Posted by manah

You're right.
The razor isn't so old, John Pitts 1850-1875.
I've read about such scales at that period, Robert A.Doyle wrote about them.

John Pitts died in 1859. See here. His son Charles was trading under his own name at the time. When John Pitts senior died, his sons Charles and John formed Pitts Bros.

Regards,
Neil
05-16-2014, 05:11 PM
Neil Miller

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

(on the question of a regrind) A couple things are pointers. With a blade this old, look at the condition of the blade face. For a razor to have so much pitting and wear on the tang and to be rescaled at some point, it is not consistent with what would be a factory finish on the blade. Also on the tang you can see there is a lot of pitting but the tang still looks ground and shiny. This was apparently somewhat common, to regrind the back areas as well as the blade itself. Also the line between the angles on the tang is pretty rounded. This almost always happens with soft wheel buffing that is done today, but can happen with grinding that does not perfectly set those angles as well. Original pieces would have a crisp line there. Finally, from your second hi resolution picture, it looks like there are two sets of hone wear. This would be consistent with original hone wear and hone wear after a new angle was set by regrinding.

An old thread, but worth pointing a few glaring inconsistencies out.

Firstly the photos show tang pitting/tarnish commensurate with the pitting/tarnish on the blade. So no pointer here.

Secondly the tangs on old razors were finished in a different way to the blades - it was not uncommon for a thick leather faced wooden wheel to polish the tang, softening the line there. It is to be found on an awful lot of razors. Some places employed women and children to give the final polish to tangs using a compound and a soft bit of stick - this is another way the angle at the tang becomes softened.

Thirdly the tang is often at a different temper to the blade - softer - so it wears more when being buffed giving a more rounded effect than the blade.

Fourth, the blade was often finished different to the tang (see above) inasmuch as if the blade was not mirrored less work would have gone into the buffing stage, leaving more of the lines from the sandstone grinding wheel - this gives a sharper delineation, obviously.

Fifth, the hone wear along the shoulder of the spine covers the angle left by the wheel, whether it be sandstone or buff, giving a false impression of sharpness.

Sixth, the commonest reason for a lower line of hone wear is when a small chip has been ground off the bevel - it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with regrinding so cannot be used as a pointer.

For what its worth, I see none of those things as being pointers to a regrind.

Regards,
Neil