Are they Shave Ready from the manufacturer, or not?

Dear Gentlemen,

I am a Greek straight razor shaver. In my country there is a shaving forum with a few members.

The reason I am opening this thread is to have some expert opinions about a debate that we have in our Greek forum.
Some of us, including me support that a new straight razor, especially a new Dovo or a Their-Issard is actually shave ready from the manufacture, while others support that these razors do not come shave ready from the manufacture, and they always need professional honing before shaving.
I base my point of excellent manufacture’s honing on my experience with a new Dovo Bismarck 6/8 which was indeed shave ready from the manufacture, and the edge is the most perfect I have ever seen. However, other members from our forum insist that they also bought a new Dovo straight razor (one member in particular bought the “Best Quality” Dovo straight razor) and it was absolutely non-shave ready.

Since this forum (SRP) is the largest worldwide in regard of straight razors, I would like to have some opinions regarding your experience with new straight razors and especially Dovo or Thiers-Issard but not only.
Do they come shave ready from the manufacture, or do they not ?
I cannot believe that some of them are shave ready and some others not. It does not make any sense to hone professionally some of them, but not all of them.

Thank you very much.

"Shave Ready" is a subjective thing; a razor that is "shave ready" to one guy might be unacceptable to another.

The general consensus here seems to be that, for the most part, most razors straight from the manufacturer do not come shave ready. To some guys they might be, to others not so much. Just depends on each guy's opinion of shave ready.

i haven't seen any shave ready blade from factory yet. some vendors sell them shave ready and they mention it has been honed etc.
gl

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Originally Posted by Slur

I base my point of excellent manufacture’s honing on my experience with a new Dovo Bismarck 6/8 which was indeed shave ready from the manufacture, and the edge is the most perfect I have ever seen.

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I'm surprised you generalize from a single positive event. I have two objections:
(1) single events are usually irrelevant for drawing general conclusions
(2) a negative is enough to disprove something, a positive is not enough to prove something.

Now if you go ahead and get a sample of over 30 razors from the factory and are happy with the edges, then I would agree that you have a good reason to consider them shave ready.

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Originally Posted by Slur

I cannot believe that some of them are shave ready and some others not. It does not make any sense to hone professionally some of them, but not all of them.

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I don't see why wouldn't this be a possibility. We have seen the video from dovo and we know they have people hone them and we have some ideas how much time is spent on honing and how the edges are tested. I would in fact expect exactly this - most razors don't have very good edges with an occasional exception.

I have heard many people make both claims; some say they come shave ready, some say they are butter knike dull. While factory shave-readiness seems to be improving (and perhaps more common) I certainly would say it's still the exception and not the rule.

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Originally Posted by gugi

I'm surprised you generalize from a single positive event. I have two objections:
(1) single events are usually irrelevant for drawing general conclusions
(2) a negative is enough to disprove something, a positive is not enough to prove something.

Now if you go ahead and get a sample of over 30 razors from the factory and are happy with the edges, then I would agree that you have a good reason to consider them shave ready.

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I believe it is more possible that the procedure is standardized in order to produce shave ready blades, and in some cases, the technician doesn’t pay attention and the results are not excellent, than the opposite, that in general they don’t really care about the edge and they routinely produce non-shave ready blades but in some cases the technician really gives much more than usual to a single blade and it comes perfect.
For sure, mine was perfect.

I'm sure that the procedure is standardized and it produces what dovo considers shave-ready razors.
However, none of mine with a factory edge on them was anywhere near perfect, and I've had more than the single one that you've had.

well in my experience i bought a dovo best quality from the factory and it was not shave ready i did hear Their-Issard razors come in better shape

No they (Dovo's and TI's) are not "Shave Ready" to most people's standards...

And Yes there are exceptions in there that will shave "OK" but I haven't ever seen one that could not be made much much better then when it came from the factory....

See that last statement I added Bold too??? re-read that one again...

Yep what he said:)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

No they (Dovo's and TI's) are not "Shave Ready" to most people's standards...

And Yes there are exceptions in there that will shave "OK" but I haven't ever seen one that could not be made much much better then when it came from the factory....

See that last statement I added Bold too??? re-read that one again...

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I have had new Dovos that would give a good shave right from the factory, good not great. Nobody at Dovo shaves with them before shipment, the edge may be good but not shave ready.

I personally have a Dovo special...I can state for a fact that I would not consider it shave ready from the factory knowing what I know now. Did it shave right out of the box...sure...but was it comfortable and up to par with what I know now...nope. So in some ways it boils down to what you know and what you would consider shave ready :)

Glen / gssixgun sums it up nicely. I have never ever gotten a Dovo nor a TI that was shave ready from the factory.

Ok gentlemen, it is clear. They are not shave ready.
Thank you all.

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Originally Posted by Otto

Glen / gssixgun sums it up nicely. I have never ever gotten a Dovo nor a TI that was shave ready from the factory.

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It's probably useful to say also that this is not a slam on Dovo or TI. They provide us with new razors made of good steel with a range of styles and sizes, a variety of scale colors and styles, with tight pivot pins and no hone wear, nicks, waterspots, etc. that we contend with on used razors. These razors are easy enough to hone to shave-readiness by a competent honemeister.

Imagine if no new razors of that quality were being made and we only had vintage blades needing rescue

So I just want to clarify what I know the others mean as well--we're not slamming these companies at all, just stating that mass manufacturing won't produce an optimally shave-ready edge, but most of us are happy enough to have a hone-ready edge that can be brought up to par by our favorite honists or on our favorite stones.

Well stated Lawson...

It is amazing that this still comes up.

The manufacturers would like us to believe the razors are shave ready as in my opinion, it helps their vendors who can sell razors stating the manufacturer says this. I am aware of no manufacturer that hones their razors and shave tests them to make sure and if they are not shave ready, re-hones them and tests them again. It simply is too time consuming for them and I'm sure would increase the cost of the razors for us.

I totally agree that the new razors are better now then they have been in the past. I continue to hone thousands of them and it remains the exception that one comes out of the box shave ready.

One of the main reasons I believe in honing new razors is that I am committed to new guys having every chance of success possible when they are learning to shave with a straight razor. Learning the technique alone can be challenging enough without undertaking the learning process with an almost shave ready razor. This commitment is directed to growing our population and was the basis for founding the original forum. To me that is the most important thing for all of us. Let's be here to help people take the chore out of daily shaving and make shaving with a straight razor something to look forward to.

Have fun,

Lynn

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Originally Posted by Lynn

It is amazing that this still comes up.

The manufacturers would like us to believe the razors are shave ready as in my opinion, it helps their vendors who can sell razors stating the manufacturer says this. I am aware of no manufacturer that hones their razors and shave tests them to make sure and if they are not shave ready, re-hones them and tests them again. It simply is too time consuming for them and I'm sure would increase the cost of the razors for us.

I totally agree that the new razors are better now then they have been in the past. I continue to hone thousands of them and it remains the exception that one comes out of the box shave ready.

One of the main reasons I believe in honing new razors is that I am committed to new guys having every chance of success possible when they are learning to shave with a straight razor. Learning the technique alone can be challenging enough without undertaking the learning process with an almost shave ready razor. This commitment is directed to growing our population and was the basis for founding the original forum. To me that is the most important thing for all of us. Let's be here to help people take the chore out of daily shaving and make shaving with a straight razor something to look forward to.

Have fun,

Lynn

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I can certainly testify to the problems that arise when a factory-only edge is employed by a newbie. I started with a Kriegar and canned shave cream, and you can imagine the outcome. Then I stepped up to a Dovo Astrale but just with the factory edge, again, disappointing results and I almost quit. That's when I found this site, ordered a Dovo hand-honed from SRD and started making progress.

I suspect as long as there are newbies, the same questions will come up and beginners are often in a hurry, see a friendly forum, and figure they can just ask instead of taking a little time to read up on the topic on the wiki.

Maybe we need to have some kind of entrance test, nobody can post anywhere except in the Beginners forum until they have read the basic wiki articles and know a few basic facts.

I know. Not gonna happen!

So do new Dovos & TIs out of the box still need or still get the full honing treatment from the bevel setting process all the way up or are many of them now only needing lighter work on finer hones to get satisfactory edges? Or something in between? :hmmm:

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

So do new Dovos & TIs out of the box still need or still get the full honing treatment from the bevel setting process all the way up or are many of them now only needing lighter work on finer hones to get satisfactory edges? Or something in between? :hmmm:

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Trick question! you're an old pro who knows better than we do!

I like the statement someone, made in another thread. The guy said "If I did not set the bevel, then I do not regard the razor as having had the bevel set."

Kind of like I treat every gun as though it is loaded unless I have personally cleared it. Except in reverse. And it's guns, not blades, and....

Yeah I guess it was kind of a dumb question - I guess what I am wondering is how serviceable the bevels are these days out of the factory. Personally I never bought a new razor and rarely hone them

edit: yeah, maybe Lynn answers that for me back when he said "If there is a question, re-set the bevel"

By the way, for those who are brand new here Lawson is joking; everyone knows I'm neither old nor a pro :p

NO, they are not shave ready.

"Shave ready" is how I describe a just adequate edge. As I have gotten more and more into this, I've come to appreciate finer gradations. I won't shave with a "shave ready" edge. I'll refine it until it is an excellent edge, which means (to me) that my two-pass shave results in BSS everywhere except a few problem areas, and even then stubble is noticeable only with significant finger pressure. Some edges will, with this process, become exceptional shavers -- sharp, comfortable, leaving no hint of stubble anywhere. I expect that one day I will sell all my excellent razors and keep only those (currently maybe ten) that are superlative. Life's too short not to have an outstanding shave every morning.