Why Are Philly's So Good!?

First I was going to ask why they are so expensive, but after receiving one from a friend I learned two things.
One is that it honed up faster than any other razor I had done before it.
And second that not only did it get super sharp but it gave me the smoothest shave ever!
How and why is this possible?
I am assuming it is because it has more silver than other razors so it is easier to hone and doesn't have that scary sharp edge. I didn't feel like if I accidentally changed the angle or pressure it was going to cut me. It gave me confidence to do what I need to do with no fear.
Amazing!
Now why?

No silver in silver steel. Maybe at one time a very long time ago but razor steel is just carbon steel. Most people think the fillies are harder to hone up. Maybe you are a better honer than you thought eh?

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Most people think the fillies are harder to hone up.

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I've seen this posted a few times before.
My experience with the Filarmonica's are quite the opposite.
No other blades in my collection hones up as easily as these.
It could possibly be what kind of stones we all use?
I have no idea, but I have given the ease of honing as but one good reason these blades are sought after.
By some:)

and what about how it feels on the skin though?
I have used dozens of blades from wedges to full hollows and noting is as comfortable
on my face as this thing and it is no small blade either.
there must be something different.
maybe the forging process?

The fillis are mythical creatures. There are lots of factors to consider including your skin type, face structure, etc. Personal preference seems to be the biggest thing. For me, Revisor razors stand alone. After that...I'd say Puma is second followed by a ton of other manufacturers from many different countries that are awesome shavers.

Because of the double forging process. Thats also why Pumas are what they are. Well that and the good quality steel, my vote goes for Pumas though.

An "easy to hone" razor is usually a thin or soft razor. Easy to hone often translates to "needs honing more frequently." Not a good thing or a bad thing, but something to take into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Memorael

Because of the double forging process. Thats also why Pumas are what they are. Well that and the good quality steel, my vote goes for Pumas though.

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What does "double forging" mean?

IME high carbon steel full hollow Solingen razors, from the '60s and earlier, are generally superlative shavers and you don't need to jump through hoops to hone a fine shaving edge on them. Fillys, Pumas, Ducks and many lesser known brands have all been exceptional AFAIC. Personally I couldn't rate one brand as "better" than the other, though every now and again one individual razor may stand out.

There MUST be someone out there who knows the secret-Ive always wanted to know also,unless there is a difference then we are all victims of mass hysteria,people are paying crazy numbers for them ,and they must know something we don't or there just crazy.But nowhere have I ever heard the virtues of Spanish steel being something special,so what is it?

Not going to lie. I really do not like my Doble Temple 13. I know I am a newb and lack technique but it is the last razor i reach for. MAXI has honed it and says the thing is magic but for me it just does not go it for me

I've never used one but I'm going the conspiracy theory route and saying that hype from long ago has translated into a current day placebo effect. I've read many unbiased opinions, such as Jimmy's, which say they are great shavers but on par with others of the same caliber.

Just like Titleist golf clubs... they're great but when you enter the premium market, there are simply small differences that set competition apart - otherwise there would only be one company.

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Originally Posted by kevin007

First I was going to ask why they are so expensive, but after receiving one from a friend I learned two things.
One is that it honed up faster than any other razor I had done before it.
And second that not only did it get super sharp but it gave me the smoothest shave ever!
How and why is this possible?
I am assuming it is because it has more silver than other razors so it is easier to hone and doesn't have that scary sharp edge. I didn't feel like if I accidentally changed the angle or pressure it was going to cut me. It gave me confidence to do what I need to do with no fear.
Amazing!
Now why?

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I'd bet if you felt that comfortable with all of your razors, you'd find that almost all of your shaves would be amazing. :)

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Originally Posted by ats200

I've never used one but I'm going the conspiracy theory route and saying that hype from long ago has translated into a current day placebo effect. I've read many unbiased opinions, such as Jimmy's, which say they are great shavers but on par with others of the same caliber.

Just like Titleist golf clubs... they're great but when you enter the premium market, there are simply small differences that set competition apart - otherwise there would only be one company.

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no Placebo effect here they shave really great, there however are other brands that shave just as well.

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Originally Posted by kevin007

First I was going to ask why they are so expensive, but after receiving one from a friend I learned two things.
One is that it honed up faster than any other razor I had done before it.
Possibly the bevel was already set or closer to it than previous razors.

And second that not only did it get super sharp but it gave me the smoothest shave ever!
How and why is this possible?
Good quality, well heat treated & tempered, fine grained steel that doesn't chip or easily burr up while honing, will do that :). As previously mentioned there are other brands that are similar.

I am assuming it is because it has more silver than other razors so it is easier to hone and doesn't have that scary sharp edge. No, no silver added as previously mentioned.
I didn't feel like if I accidentally changed the angle or pressure it was going to cut me. It gave me confidence to do what I need to do with no fear.
Amazing!
Now why?

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Don't forget the recent planetary alignment could have played a part. Yes... Joking :D

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Originally Posted by JimR

An "easy to hone" razor is usually a thin or soft razor. Easy to hone often translates to "needs honing more frequently." Not a good thing or a bad thing, but something to take into consideration.



What does "double forging" mean?

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Easy to hone in this context is IMO more related to a very narrow bevel, not the hardness of steel. On a EPBD it is quite narrow compared to your average Solingen.
I have not noticed any softness in the Filarmonica steel, compared to e.g wonderedges, puma's or F.W.Engels razors.

If I had to guess, I would think it is the double tempering the poster referred to.

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

But nowhere have I ever heard the virtues of Spanish steel being something special,so what is it?

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The Spanish steel, or rather the Toledo steel, as it is often referred to was once of legendary status.
I'm not saying the Filarmonicas are produced of said steel, but yes, Spanish steel has had quite the status in history.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

IME high carbon steel full hollow Solingen razors, from the '60s and earlier, are generally superlative shavers and you don't need to jump through hoops to hone a fine shaving edge on them. Fillys, Pumas, Ducks and many lesser known brands have all been exceptional AFAIC. Personally I couldn't rate one brand as "better" than the other, though every now and again one individual razor may stand out.

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Yup, that pretty much covers it. Well put, JimmyHAD.

We've discussed this kind of thing before as to what makes some razors seem exceptional over others. I have a filly from the last batch that were sold NOS and it is a very good shaver but nothing exceptional and was more difficult to hone.

In the end if you took a bunch of your razors and you were blindfolded do you think you could pick out razors based on the feel if someone shaved you?

Ya know it is funny that Lynn and I were talking the other day, not about Filli's, but about exceptional shavers in general, and we were discussing what the difference was between a great shaver, and an exceptional shaver... There are many great shavers out there, in fact the more razors you hone, the better you get, the better you get, the more you find :) funny how that happens...
But every now and then you get an exceptional one, one that makes you take a step back and say, Whoaaaa.... But to call it a brand or even a type of razor might be streching it a bit, myself I am more of the opinion that the "exceptional" comes down to way to many variables to call out just one... as the saying goes... JMHO :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ya know it is funny that Lynn and I were talking the other day, not about Filli's, but about exceptional shavers in general, and we were discussing what the difference was between a great shaver, and an exceptional shaver... There are many great shavers out there, in fact the more razors you hone, the better you get, the better you get, the more you find :) funny how that happens...
But every now and then you get an exceptional one, one that makes you take a step back and say, Whoaaaa.... But to call it a brand or even a type of razor might be streching it a bit, myself I am more of the opinion that the "exceptional" comes down to way to many variables to call out just one... as the saying goes... JMHO :rofl2:

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yes, that's what I have always said. It's something intrinsic to the razor that the best honing in the world can't create in a lesser razor. Probably just perfection in it's creation I would surmise.

My first WOW shave was a Henkels. My next was a flea market find, I think Christian or something like that. I have shaved with 3 different Ducks and still don't see
what the fuss is about. So yes, the size, weight, skin type, and a bunch of other factors go into a great shave. One being getting the right lather up which I still cannot do well enough for it to be opaque and not melt off my face as soon as I apply it.
Anyway, the point is this was not my first wow shave or connection with a razor guys. Not to say I have anywhere near the experience you do, but
is over and over again, not just one shave.
To address the easier it is to hone the more you may need to touch it up, I think if you don't strop well you may need to do a lap or two, bu that is it.
I don't have the luxury to use it all the time because I am still trying to get my honing down and need to work on different kinds of blades.
One last thing for you meisters out there...I have seen about every video I can find and read a lot but have yet to see anyone address whatI have found the biggest problem in honing and that is the problem blades. Lets face it, how many lay totally flat and don't have some issue that needs to be addressed. Weather it be a small dip in the middle or the toe that won't hone up. There are so many problems but I only see everyone showing straight up and down or X patterns and basically talking about numbers of strokes and pyramids when I want to know the little tricks of the trade about the tough spots.
gssixgun did mention using his finger to hit a problem spot in one of his videos for a second but what if the dip was more pronounced? If you push don't the two touching sides get extra force as well. The other method is pulling off the side but tilting and hitting the edge the wrong wa always scared me. I guess with practice.
Sorry this went too long. had a couple of beers but am going to bed.
Thanks for any advice or references.
gnite

I own several Filly's and yes they are great shavers, but there are a lot of razors on equal ground. As was mentioned above, it is just probably something in their making that all the elements came together to make a great razor that takes a great edge. I will say however that someone recently loaned me an EPBD and I got my first WOW shave from a Filly with it. These are the most expensive of them, but not many razors will give me a "wow" feeling while shaving. The EPBD did (my DT's don't) and it wasn't just some fluke edge as I was able to re-hone it to my preferences and really was amazed at the edge it took. Now are they worth $$$$ that they are going for these days? That may be another question.

Lots of meat, cheese, some onions and a fresh roll... how can that not be good??




:p


OK, now I'm hungry....

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Originally Posted by kevin007

I don't have the luxury to use it all the time because I am still trying to get my honing down and need to work on different kinds of blades.
One last thing for you meisters out there...I have seen about every video I can find and read a lot but have yet to see anyone address whatI have found the biggest problem in honing and that is the problem blades. Lets face it, how many lay totally flat and don't have some issue that needs to be addressed. Weather it be a small dip in the middle or the toe that won't hone up. There are so many problems but I only see everyone showing straight up and down or X patterns and basically talking about numbers of strokes and pyramids when I want to know the little tricks of the trade about the tough spots.
gssixgun did mention using his finger to hit a problem spot in one of his videos for a second but what if the dip was more pronounced? If you push don't the two touching sides get extra force as well. The other method is pulling off the side but tilting and hitting the edge the wrong wa always scared me. I guess with practice.

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:OT


You need to pay more attention to the Beginning of all those vids out there... Restoring / Fixing / Bevel setting,,, is all about 1k and below,,,
We reset the bevel to even during that stage, after that it is just honing,,
90% of the work is in setting the bevel, 9% is in sharpening and 1% is on the final finish stone...
Some people actually consider work done below the "4k" level (I use that loosely to describe the Sharpening stage not to reflect the Hone used) to be Restoration not even part of honing :)

Back on topic, this reflects on the Filarmonicas, and other quality brands also, as these, unless they are somehow damaged or mis-treated are easy to "Hone" you can usually start at the 4k level, and pop a fantastic edge on them... Some of the newer Fili's can get a bit finicky on the final finish with being harsh, if yer not careful, but in general they are straight forward on the hones/stones

I love to weigh in on these questions because I love Filarmonicas...
My DT13 was my first wow shave and continues to be my favorite, even if due to sentimentality. The EPBD and 14 Novodur shave just as well but handle differently due to their size. In my experience far less work is needed on the hones to get them into top shape, which they tend to hold for longer periods of time. I have seen a small handful of Solingen razors that match the shave quality and feel, but far more that were harder to work on or I could never quite get comfortable.
I think what sets them apart is how they were ground. All the elements were just right for an exceptional tool. But they are definitely not the only or most exceptional shavers out there. The brand is simply consistent.
C is for Consistency and that's good enough for me.
I find burning some copal improves any razors performance, FYI.

I haven't gotten to all the videos by sixgun yet but I will when I have some more time.
Thanks for weighing in guys.

What is copal? and why burn it?

I myself do not find Fillys to be exceptional, there are far too many better razors out there.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I myself do not find Fillys to be exceptional, there are far too many better razors out there.

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And what are they in your opinion?

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Originally Posted by Grizzley1

And what are they in your opinion?

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Just about anything is as good as a filly, some are better(this is usually an issue of grind with me and not manufacture), what turns me off about them the most are the oh so very crappy and cheap plastic scales. Nothing really wrong with the steel, but it is not deserving the high praise it gets.

I'm going to have to jump on the Filly bandwagon and spring for one soon. I know this is all opinion but I'd like to have my own when reading these threads. I've heard great things about the steel and the somewhat common bad reviews of the scales.

I say nun2sharp is actually a Filly fanatic and is trying to lower prices! :p

What about the "sub Cero"?
are they better or worst from the other phillies?

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Originally Posted by rarreola

What about the "sub Cero"?
are they better or worst from the other phillies?

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I believe the translation for sub cero is sub zero. So it is probably the frozen heat thing like the Robesons and I forget who else had that "frozen temper" or whatever hype going. Good razors IME.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I believe the translation for sub cero is sub zero. So it is probably the frozen heat thing like the Robesons and I forget who else had that "frozen temper" or whatever hype going. Good razors IME.

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I thought I read somewhere tht the Dubl Ducks were frozen tempered as well. May be mistaken though.

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Originally Posted by Theseus

I thought I read somewhere tht the Dubl Ducks were frozen tempered as well. May be mistaken though.

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I think just the Wonderedge is frozen tempered.

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Originally Posted by Birnando

Easy to hone in this context is IMO more related to a very narrow bevel, not the hardness of steel. On a EPBD it is quite narrow compared to your average Solingen.
I have not noticed any softness in the Filarmonica steel, compared to e.g wonderedges, puma's or F.W.Engels razors.

If I had to guess, I would think it is the double tempering the poster referred to.

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Nope, just as I said its hammered twice, all pumas say that on the little sticker that comes with them. Hammered twice. That is also what doble forge on phillys mean. So straight razor makers take note.

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Originally Posted by Memorael

Nope, just as I said its hammered twice, all pumas say that on the little sticker that comes with them. Hammered twice. That is also what doble forge on phillys mean. So straight razor makers take note.

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Where does it say doble forge on a Filarmonica?
Doble temple translates to double tempered/tempering.
Forge in Spanish is forja/forjar. Martillo is the Spanish word for hammer, or something like that.

I checked all my Filarmonica's for reference to this but couldn't find anything about double hammering.

I think what all this comes down to is are they worth the ching they are getting? The answer is NO. Are they a great razor YES. We need a consumer reports of straight razors! I mean you can get Pumas, Dorkos, Wackers, Dovos, TI's for under $200. Fillys are bringing in $300 +. To me my Japanese is superior to everything. This is my exceptional Whoa razor. My 7/8 Dovo Fritz B. is a close 2nd. I would also believe Nun2Sharp as he puts an incredible edge on razors.

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Originally Posted by greenjosh

I think what all this comes down to is are they worth the ching they are getting? The answer is NO.

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The answer to You is no. To others, who knows:)

To me, the answer is yes.