Kamisori experts’ opinion is welcome

Kamisori experts’ opinion is welcome

I just bought this NOS Kamisori made from “Kiyotaka Ichihara”.
The dimensions:
Blade Length: 40 mm
Blade Width (at the widest point): 18 mm
Total Length: 150 mm
Backside of the Blade Thickness: 5 mm

Could somebody tell me approximately when it was made?

Comments and opinions on the overall quality of the blade are very welcome.
Thank you gentlemen!




http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3754/29448754.jpg
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4272/33589303.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/7504/66975279.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5263/55738302.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8497/19449698.jpg
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1143/82936403.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3852/58472166.jpg






PS: I am thinking of using the following technique for honing. Do you agree?
YouTube - ‪gssixgun Kamisori part 1.wmv‬‏

YouTube - ‪Japanese Kamisori Honing--Nakayama Karasu (First half)‬‏

gssixgun I wanted to ask you this:
In your video you say that it must be used an 8k stone.
This particular razor has never been used and never been honed. Doing the arm hair test it cuts absolutely no hair at all. So I was thinking that I should start honing on the 1k (Norton) and then pass to 4K, 8K, and finish to the Chinese stone.

Would you start on the 8k anyway?

I am using a Coticule in that Vid and I am using a slurry...

On a totally dull Kamisori yes you are going to have to set the bevel but You want to be careful using low grit stones as they "Cut" deep into the steel on these...
You are going to be using a fair bit of pressure compared to honing a Western razor so I would at the very lowest start at around 4k-6k if I wasn't using a Coticule.. It is much better to polish more and cut less on these.. In fact one of the reasons I like the Coticule for setting these is they cut shallow and start with a nice haze finish... You can achieve almost the same by using a slurry on your Norton 8k too..

I'll second Glen here,
I have not watched his vids but I found out that Coticule is great for starting work on Kamisori. You might be able to get a very nice edge of Coticule too, I personally prefer to finish kamisori on Jnat or Escher.

Don't experiment with your honing skills on that razor. You can damage one of those with the wrong technique faster than you can say Tokyo. Do your self a favor and send it out. It really needs a major hone job not a touchup.

Too late my friend.
I could get no sleep thinking of it. So I got down to my hones to work on it.
The edge looks very different, very sharp, and the arm hair test passes easily.
Too bad I shaved earlier this afternoon. Tomorrow or after tomorrow I will shave test. :gl:

What I am confused about is JimR is honing the "stamp side" of the razor against the edge and not using a backhoning motion like I commonly hear about. Also in JimRs latest blog he mentions that his new mentor tells him that 7:1 is wrong and then there is a diagram showing the motion his mentor taught him to get the correct edge.

it can be seen here:
Eastern Smooth: Iwasaki-Sensei-Lessons Learned Part 1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Disburden

What I am confused about is JimR is honing the "stamp side" of the razor against the edge and not using a backhoning motion like I commonly hear about. Also in JimRs latest blog he mentions that his new mentor tells him that 7:1 is wrong and then there is a diagram showing the motion his mentor taught him to get the correct edge.

it can be seen here:
Eastern Smooth: Iwasaki-Sensei-Lessons Learned Part 1

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I use both forward and back honing motion and it works fine. I do not kow if there is any real diffrence really.

It depends what you are trying to do. If you are doing major honing pretty much any good honing technique will work as long as you hone asymmetrically. For minor honing and touchups the usual back and forth strokes are appropriate. The original recommendations were a 3:1 ratio but I think many have found differing opinions on that. Some do the 3:1 some do 10:1 and some hone the non shaving side much less than 10:1.

Like with western honing you find what works best for you.

DON'T get caught up on the numbers, even if you are a Japanese style (Back and forth) honer the numbers can change,,,
Each razor just like their western counterparts can like a slightly different set...
You can even do a progressive pattern like 10-1, 7-1, 5-1, 3-1, on the same razor...
The biggest trick to honing Kamisori is learning the shifting pressure IMHO.. I also agree with Stefan that to get a "True Kamisori " sharpness on the edge you need to go to the really fine stones... I have always felt that these razors should be so sharp that the edge merely glides on the top of the skin never being pressed at all... again JMHO and what I like...


Edit: What TBS said hehehe

that thing looks mean. do you hold it like a straight razor? how much do razors like that cost? i want one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vvti714

that thing looks mean. do you hold it like a straight razor? how much do razors like that cost? i want one.

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Why, it is a straight razor. Once you have it in your hand there aren't too many options for holding it.

If you do a search under Kamisori you'll come up with many discussions on the topic and references to people selling new ones and vintage. Check out our vendors too and some come up now and then on the classifieds. You'll see them on Eboy but you really need to be careful there.

It gave me the impression that it is made for shaving another person and not yourself.

I also found difficult to hold it in the various passes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slur

It gave me the impression that it is made for shaving another person and not yourself.

I also found difficult to hold it in the various passes.

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Technically yes but you can use it yourself , and with more practice you will get full quality shave from a kamisori.

No, but it's not meant for shaving someone else. If that were the case where are the razors they used to shave themselves with?

It's just a very different animal than most of us are used to so you have to basically relearn how to shave when you use them. If you do this you will be rewarded with the best shave of your life.

I just shaved once with it. It is the sharpest and smoothest razor that I own. For the first time I had the feeling that the hair were cut without the razor touching the skin.
But the difficulty of holding and keeping the right angle during the passes made the shave a bit aggressive.
Maybe if I used the string to the handle I would hold it easier and steadier.

Does anybody know where can I buy this particular string for the handle?

I do not think itis anything special , but you need to know how to properly wrap it on the handle.
You can also get an universal rubber handle by Tosuke.
I am sure on e-bay you can find one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slur

Does anybody know where can I buy this particular string for the handle?

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It's probably steamed/fermented/chewed bamboo or some such... Man, those guys are so tricky...

:)

I found it:
Japanese straight razor handle material Ivy skin | eBay

I ran a google on Ivy Skin and it brought be back... here!

I'm not surprised. :)

What is Ivy Skin? An organic material?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tonycraigo

I ran a google on Ivy Skin and it brought be back... here!

I'm not surprised. :)

What is Ivy Skin? An organic material?

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I beleive it's a baboo thing as you said above.

Are there any comments about the age of this particular razor?
Before or after WWII?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slur

I beleive it's a baboo thing as you said above.

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Ok... probably comes with instructions like soaking for some days before wrapping... like basket material.

Looking forward to seeing your finished project.... already a beautiful thing.

It arrived today from Japan.
All instruction where in Japanese of course, so I had to figure out my self how to do it.
I soak it in warm water for half an hour to make it flexible and then I started to wrap the handle.


http://i56.tinypic.com/28k39s8.jpg

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2084/0105vn.jpg


http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1267/0106v.jpg

Lookin good,one thing you might try tho,google whip finish.
Hard to explaine but lay a pce of doubled fishing line on the handle than wrap over it.
Loop the end of the material thru the mono loop and pull it thru under the material.
Makes for a nice finish.

Hate to be a party pooper but is that a crack running top to bottom. In pics 2&4?
Since you said nothing about it maybe i'm seeing a light reflection.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Lookin good,one thing you might try tho,google whip finish.
Hard to explaine but lay a pce of doubled fishing line on the handle than wrap over it.
Loop the end of the material thru the mono loop and pull it thru under the material.
Makes for a nice finish.

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Thank you very much pixelfixed. My finish is a bit ugly I know.

To be honest, I didn’t understand exactly what you describe as the finishing technique due to my English handicap, but I will read it again and again over a thousand times to get the meaning, and maybe I will fix it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paco

Hate to be a party pooper but is that a crack running top to bottom. In pics 2&4?
Since you said nothing about it maybe i'm seeing a light reflection.

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that is where the foge weld between hard steel and the soft iron is, not a crack.

If you mean the line that I indicate with the arrows, these are the Japanese letters.
Check the second pic.

My photos are very bad quality.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3175/31666220.jpg


http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/4609/24072384.jpg

As Above,is not a crack,believe it is called a homan (SP) present in most of my Kamisori.
Slur,hard to explaine but when you start your wrap,say at the end of the handle,lay about an inch of material flat on the handle,start the wrap at the very end and wrap over the one inch piece,keep wrapping toward the blade,when you get about 1/2 inch from the blade end of the wrap,lay a piece of strong fine nylon twine or fishing line with a loop on the handle,wrap over that,put the end of your material thru the loop and pull the material thru and under the final wrappings,than cut off the excess,no knots.Hope it works for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

As Above,is not a crack,believe it is called a homan (SP) present in most of my Kamisori.
Slur,hard to explaine but when you start your wrap,say at the end of the handle,lay about an inch of material flat on the handle,start the wrap at the very end and wrap over the one inch piece,keep wrapping toward the blade,when you get about 1/2 inch from the blade end of the wrap,lay a piece of strong fine nylon twine or fishing line with a loop on the handle,wrap over that,put the end of your material thru the loop and pull the material thru and under the final wrappings,than cut off the excess,no knots.Hope it works for you.

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it is not hamon, hamon is a result of differential treatment of a single piece of steel like this
http://red-dragonfly-sword.com/uploa...hi_hamon01.jpg

Most Kamisori are forge welded and therefore does not have a hamon, I have not seen mono steel kamisori althought they might exsit.

Hello all,

Since I am new here and this is my first post let me introduce myself. I am a bladesmith in Texas working in the Japanese tradition. I concentrate on swords (Katana, Wakazashi, Tanto etc.) But I have also done extensive work making woodworking planes.

I am a complete newbie to straight razor shaving and I am certainly no expert on kamisori but maybe I can add to this discussion.

Mainaman is correct. The kamasori, like almost all quality Japanese plane irons, chisels and many knives has a high carbon, hardenable steel insert forge welded to a low carbon soft steel or iron body.

The argument that this saves the expensive steel for where it is needed is a good one. In times past, producing high carbon steel was time consuming and expensive proposition.

There are other considerations as well, Having a soft steel substrate allows the cutting edge to be harder. The harder the steel the more prone it is to chipping-like glass. The soft steel or iron can help absorb and dissipate the forces that may otherwise chip the blade.

A hamon, as Manaman says, is a product of differential heat treatment on hardenable steel.
It is clever way to have a hard cutting edge and flexible back. Very useful in swords and some knives-not so much in plane blades, chisels and I assume kamisori.

That is practically speaking. aesthetically speaking, a well done hamon can add a great deal of visual appeal to a blade.

Been thinking about trying my hand a making a kamisori but am soaking up as much info as I can before putting hammer to steel.

Great place ya'll have here.

Razors like those are the ones I would love to get my hands on. I mean come on, who is going to have a Razor like that??

That's a very nice Tsurayuki!

つらゆき