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When you are looking at vintage razors (at flea markets, the bay, SRP Classifieds, etc.) what do you look for precisely to judge whether scales and pins are original? Said differently, when someone claims that scales are original, how do they know exactly? Thanks.
Excellent question. In a nutshell, unless it is a NOS razor, it can be very difficult. Back in the day, razor scales were replaced just like shoes were taken to the shoe shop to be repared. On razors with factory marking on scales, you could get them replaced with duplicates, and if the proper pins and collers were used, and the barber or whoever did the work was good, who"s to know 50, 60, or 70 years down the road. Many razors were rescaled with fancy cell scales after they were sold. If you have a known razor that would have had the factory trademark on the scales when new, but now has either fancy or plain scales one might assume that it had been rescaled. There are always exceptions to the rule. I have a NOS Case that has fancy stork cell scales. My wifes grandfather bought it new, and I dont think he would have spent the money to get this done. So who knows. I am sure that many of our members know a lot more than I, and could shead more light on this, and correct me if needed. Best Regards and Happy Shaving, wildhog
Yea, you really can't be 100% sure unless you have the razor in it's original sealed box. The scales can be changed the same way they were put in, you just need the same pins and washers if those were used and a very basic skill.
Of course when you see modern pins/scales on old razor, or mismatched pins chances are that's not the original job. With some other razors you can tell if the scales look from the period, or not.
BTW the same thing is true of the blades as well - quite often just looking at the lines resulting from the grinding process you can tell that there was regrinding at a later point. And then there is the question of when were the thumbnotches made, esp. the double ones from the 1800s. I've seen people with big egos and small brains claim originality of those with absolutely no evidence to base it on.
A simple way to determine whether your razor has been married to scales from another razor is to compare the pins. If a broken blade has been replaced with a blade from another razor the pin at the pivot point will probably not match the pin at the wedge end. It was much easier to just replace the one pin because whoever did the repinning was probably trying not to deceive anyone, but just match up two broken razors and come up with one usable unit. If the scales have been done by a good restorer both pins have probably been replaced and it will be very difficult, if not impossible, to know if the scales are original. But then, what does it matter if the scales that have been replaced fit the blade and the look is authentic?
Regards - Walt
Thanks guys. I also see ads claiming "factory edge" or "this razor has never been honed" - how is this determined exactly?
Good replies above to your re-scale question. When I am looking for vintage razors from where ever I am expecting to find used razors. A re-scaled razor, if done professionally, has the patina and history of it's use. That to me says that either the razor was good enough to save or that the cost of re-scaling was preferred over the cost of a replacement razor. I have a few that had one scale replaced with a piece of wood. I like it that way. What I really look to avoid is a razor being sold for a premium price that has been Frankensteined in an effort to get the most money from the sale. Usually the pin or washer on one end will not match the pin on the other end or there will be signs of hammering on the pin. This is not always the case.
Factory edge: Look for an extremely thin bevel and no wear on the spine. It would be very difficult to notice the difference between the first and second honing if the second is done right. The only way to notice the difference is if the honing after the factory was done excessively or improperly.
In both of these questions we are talking about a process that if done properly would be hard to detect unless you knew exactly which scales were originally sold with each blade style. I don't see either as a show stopper if it is undetectable or prices appropriately and within your likes and budget.
If you know the history of the maker you can tell some re-scales.
For example if you take the relatively common Wester Brothers No 34 "De-Fi" razor. The factory scales were celluloid with faux woodgrain, so if you see a De-Fi without a woodgrain set of scales you know it has been re-scaled at some time in its life.
Some rescales that I have found have definite amateur hour look about them, so they're easy to spot too. As others have pointed out a mismatch between the pivot and wedge pins is another tell.
Where it is hard to spot a rescale is when the scales are of the right era and the repinning has been done with some skill.
While this is often true, you have to be careful. For example, some well known Ducks came in multiple types of scales, including plain butterscotch without inlays. Another example is Case Red Imp's, which also sometimes came in plain butterscotch scales.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauly
Lots of good answers above.
For me, it's something that has come with time and experience. I've had hundreds of razors pass through my hands and seen hundreds more in person and hundreds more in photos. After a while, you get a sense of what is probably original and what is probably not. It applies to scales, the unhoned edges, regrinds on razors, etc. Not that you ever get to be 100%, but the guesses get much more accurate. The same is true with dating razors based in stylistic clues, too. And ebay/antique/estate shopping! The more you do it, the better you get. There's an excuse to empty your wallet and fill your rotation!
A lot depends on where you find your razor. In a flea market or local antique shop, they aren't really looking for a specialised razor collector to come along, and the scales are likely to be original, or done during the razor's working life, which unless we are talking some particular rarity, strikes me as about as good. On eBay they are selling to specialists, and fakery is more likely. When you consider the sheer variation in prices for basically sound but not pristine old razors there, you can see how the temptation to do some cosmetic work will be hard for some to resist.
Nobody holds your hand and guarantees the honesty and accurate description of SRP vendors. I have seen one or two heavily criticised online. But there is no doubt that this is the way to find a far better chance of honesty and even guidance, than on eBay. I don't know what makes the difference, for antique fakers often do research and go to trouble that would pay them as well if honestly employed. Maybe it is because here the shysters are mostly deterred by knowing the customers are communicating with one another.
This may not be very helpful, but the best guide to original scales is original pins. In particular the tiny concave collars sometimes seen in old razors are hard to get. Another, not entirely conclusive but pretty circumstantial, is to see the same fancy scales on razors of different make, period or even nationality.