It seems there is an endless supply of these everywhere. I'm surprised at the prices given the supply. They must have made millions? Anyone have accurate/approximate figures?
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It seems there is an endless supply of these everywhere. I'm surprised at the prices given the supply. They must have made millions? Anyone have accurate/approximate figures?
who knows how many have been made..
Price are what they are because of hype mostly.
++++1Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
I have a W&B Celebrated in great condition. It's not by best shaver by far. I don't understand the hype, I guess some people like to oogle over those big blades.
Very true. Hype is behind all high price razors. I have bought $10 razors that were just as good as the high price ones. W&B are prob the most common. I read in a thread. They posted some numbers. What Dovo makes in a year is what they did in a day.
It is hard for us to shave and collect to the point at which we have the experience of a sweet shave with an old, smiling, W@B, Greaves, Rodgers, Wostenholm, Heiffor, etc. and numerous other English makers, in proper condition. It is not for everyone, for certain. It takes time, investment, and skills. They are much different than newer stuff. With some, the razor is all about work put in! The steel in them actually lives! Nothing like it! You will eventually see! JMHO, .......Get it on...........TomQuote:
Originally Posted by carazor
There's a difference between a good reputation and hype (hype=exaggerated reputation). Wade and Butchers are fine shavers, take a great edge and hold it, are as much as 100 to 150 years old and demand good prices. We may or may not want to pay those prices, but somebody obviously does. When a 150 year old razor in restored condition can be sold for $500 on Ebay, there has to be a reason. Sometimes the reason can be buyer insanity but sometimes it's buyer rationality, knowing that the razor can be resold for that amount or more.
No offense to W&B fans. I like W&B, and I have one. I'd just be curious to know how many were made, it seems there's an endless supply of them and even greater demand. An interesting phenomenon, reminds me of the housing market in 2005. I hope people aren't mortgaging these razors with securitized debt, we may see another financial crisis!
They made scads of them. As far as I know no numbers exist. They were like cell phones and Bic lighters back then. As to the rest, What? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by carazor
There are many other Sheffield made razors that shave just as good as W&B but cost less. To me when a certain brand that does not shave better than many others, but is more expensive is just hyped.Quote:
Originally Posted by ace
I'm with the group that believes the price is hype and a name that is easy to remember. W&B's shave good and at least as good as many of my others. It really depends on how well they were honed. Most of my razors were purchased from local shops and markets. I have a bunch of W&B's and I really don't recall paying more than $28 for any one of them and most were $10 and under. Sure a bunch of them needed major work but Jr and I do that as Father and Son projects. Most are as found after cleaning w/ Maas and dental floss. Check my galleries under my profile to see where I am coming from with these comments.
If I had Joe's W&Bs I'd throw mine away ! Great stuff, especially the one with the pearl scales. W&B made more razors than there is sand in the Sahara. :rofl2:
Oops, the pearl scaled W&B was a lot more than $28, maybe 28x4. I must be getting old, I forgot about that one. Thanks Jimmy.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I do the same thing, ya get so many that when you go through them you find stuff you didn't remember you had. :p Kind of cool really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joed
It's only a guess, but I would venture to say it was easily in the hundreds of thousands, if not in the millions.
I believe Wade and Butcher was in operation for in the neighborhood of 100 years making razors. During most of that time, the straight razor was an every-day item owned by just about every man with a steady job. Of the various options out there, Sheffield steel was highly respected (and still is), and W&B was a highly respected and prolific maker. It also appears that they were well marketed with some models directed at the bargain conscious, others at the "gentlemen" and other still that were geared towards barbers. Good marketing + good quality = huge sales. So I think, as you imply, that the availability of them today is a testament to how common they once were.
As for the cost/hype, that's a mixed bag. Some of it is certainly hype. For instance, I put a nice W&B wedge in the classified recently for half of what it would have sold for 2 years ago, and after a week I gave up and pulled the add. For now I'll just keep using it because whether the market will bear the price or not, it's worth enough to me that I'm not interested in selling for less.
On the other hand, because it is a "known brand" you can buy one and you'll know for certain that it's good quality sheffield steel. You'll be able to find out when it was manufactured within a decade or so, and you'll know that it will almost certainly take a good edge. That has real value.
I'm not sure if it's still the case since I haven't been buying much lately, but about a year ago there was a HUGE run on Friodurs. You couldn't touch one for less than $100, and some of them went for several hundred. It was the flavor of the month.
I guess what it comes down to is that all the razors that are periodically the FotM are great razors, but while they're temporarily inflated is when you sell, not when you buy.
You see the same phenomenon with almost any luxury good, there's a big frenzy, the incremental market supply dries up as collectors hoard their goods and buyers drive the prices up. Once the frenzy slows the collectors start putting their supply on the market driving the prices down, then prices plummet. This happens with wine all the time. I think the same will happen with big W&B's. There were far too many produced to support the current relative pricing, once collectors start to sell their inventory. I think the people that are paying $500 plus for these things on ebay will wish they hadn't in a year or two. For me, what is fun is to figure out what will be the next cult brand. Wacker may have a shot?
Maybe the name makes them so popular. It sounds like a particulary extreme form of flyfishing.
:rofl2: Picture a guy walking out in a peaceful stream with a fishing pole and a meat cleaver. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by roughkype
Hey, some of those fish fight back! :rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by medicevans
At most of the streams I used to fish in Iowa I'd attract an audience of cows, so I guess you could do a surf and turf.
W&B's aren't the only ones . I think there may be less of these than you may think , that are in good condition , though . I'm not saying that they're worth some of the crazy money people are paying for them , because the demand for razors is relatively low compared to many other "collectables" . There are plenty of razors , out there , that are in poor condition , but good razors can be hard to find unless you go the ebay route , where you will most likely pay top dollar to get what you want .Quote:
Originally Posted by carazor
I have several, not all of them Big Bad Blades, couple of smaller ones. Always thought the name went well on the big ones for street fighting??? That aside, I have found most take a lot more work to get right, but stay right a loooong time. But I gotta agree with Mainaman, most Sheffields seem to do that, IMHO. Maybe price has something to do with collector markets and price guide publishers, sorta like old woodworker's tools?
How many razors did Wade and Butcher make? That's kind of like asking how many pills did Carter make? As some of the other posters have said, hype drives the price. The question is, "Is the hype deserved?" Generally I would say yes. Wade and Butcher made a pretty good razor and made them consistantly. Not all of these great old vintage razors are going to give you a great shave but that's for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason would be the tempering process. As scientific as they thought they were, they weren't. Back then the means to control the tempering process were crude and it was somewhat inconsistant from lot to lot and some lots of razors were just better than others. You also have to consider what that razor may have been through over the years and how much of that tempering process has been removed. Generally speaking, Wade and Butcher made a lot of razors and generally they were pretty darn good.
My guess is..... Umm... Somewhere between the three I have and eleventy billion. :D
Seriously though, I would say definitely hundreds of thousands and most likely millions. Bear in mind the company was around for the best part of the 19th century and was based in one of the biggest steel making cities in the world. W&B's were probably one of the most common blades around back then.
On a vaguely related note, I had a dream the other night that I had a time machine and went back through time picking up all these wonderful blades brand new off the production line. Then I woke up and realised I didnt have most of them!
I've not got a nice big W&B and have quite a few Sheffield blades at next to nothing to buy but they all turned out to be very decent shavers. :)
ian
May be this table will help you:) to understand how many people were in cutlery business including razors.
Employment in the Cutlery Trades, 1830 and 1851.
http://manah.strazors.com/table_em_1.jpg
The thing that really Irks me is when antique seller's and flea market people decide to base their pricing off Ebay! yes i will pay for a vintage blade in good condition that would take 10 minutes to make shave ready, but a razor that needs 100+ hours of work and you want $95 dollars???? your outa your ever loving mind!
just MHO
Just say no.Quote:
Originally Posted by alb1981
I dont believe I say no.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanII
I think its more like muttering followed by you really have no idea huh? then I walk out of the store.
Joe, it's kind of sad that Jimmy knows more about what you have than you do yourself:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Joed
LOL, I know. :) I must be getting old and forgetful or I just had a bunch of computer code working in the back of my head and wasn't able to give it full thought. or both. Check this out: http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...n-6-20-10.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by LinacMan
Maybe you should consider doing what Tim (oldblades) has done. All of his razors are tagged and cataloged:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Joed
I'll raise your eleventy billion to eleventy one billion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubear
That's because I just used my time machine and picked them all up from your house while you were asleep! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubear
Regards,
Neil