Joseph Rogers and sons No. 6

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08-22-2011, 02:37 AM
sidmind

Joseph Rogers and sons No. 6

I found un unexpected treat at the local flea market today. First thing I noticed was the Wade & Butcher coffin. After pulling the razor out all I could make out is Sheffield.
I nearly passed out when he said $9.00 I didn't bother to talk him down.

Of course i get home. And realize it's a Joseph Rogers and sons. Exactly like the one in this link
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...gers-sons.html

But unfortunately and the reason I didn't catch it right away is half the lettering is too light and the other half is double stamped. I am still trying to figure out the age. I searched every thread on the forums and every google link I could find. And I still can't pin it down for sure. Other than someone in the link I provided saying 1840-1850. But it seams older than that based on the monkey tail and shape. Please can anyone assist with getting the age within 10 Years? or confirm that it is the correct age?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...y/ace2c0d8.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...y/6dcd5d86.jpg

unfortunately it has a small nick which will not be fun honing out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...y/8c234c07.jpg
08-22-2011, 04:01 AM
holli4pirating

Those little things will hone out VERY quickly, so don't worry about them. Nice find and a sweet price. Local scores are always fantastic.
08-22-2011, 04:28 AM
eleblu05

i would say around 1870's
08-22-2011, 05:45 AM
johnmrson

That's an excellent pick up. Don't tell anyone but Joseph Rogers IMHO shave rings around Wade and Butcher. With a little bit of TLC, that'll be a great shaver. I'd guess that it's between 1860 and 1891.
08-22-2011, 11:55 AM
Joed

Congrats on an excellent local find! :tu :tu Aren't local finds just great?!
08-23-2011, 04:07 AM
sidmind

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmrson

That's an excellent pick up. Don't tell anyone but Joseph Rogers IMHO shave rings around Wade and Butcher. With a little bit of TLC, that'll be a great shaver. I'd guess that it's between 1860 and 1891.

I have to say I agree with you. I spent the last several hours honing the nick out with my Suehiro #1200 then followed up with a pyramid on a Norton 4/8, after a light strop I have to say it is very smooth. It passed the HHT with flying colors. Now to give it some time to see how long it holds the edge.

Also I will be starting a new post over in the workshop forum, linking back to here. As I have much work ahead of me on the rest of of the restoration.
08-23-2011, 11:38 AM
Joed

Note to all readers of this thread: The HHT is a sharpness test that has many variables and is unreliable. Many people perform this test, had it fall but still get great shaves from the razor. The shave is the final test in sharpness and the only one that counts. The only people you will see mentioning the HHT in relation to honing razors are usually by newbies. This is not a slam to those that post their HHT results. I played with the test early in my honing journey. Jr and CarrieM found it amusing when it worked. It is a fun test but that is all it is worth regarding a shave ready edge.
08-23-2011, 12:55 PM
sidmind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joed

The only people you will see mentioning the HHT in relation to honing razors are usually by newbies.

That was the first time I have ever even tried the HHT just for giggles. and then followed up with "see how it holds an edge over time" which imply the shave test, which I haven't had time to do yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joed

This is not a slam to those that post their HHT results.

Interesting train of thought in these forums.
08-23-2011, 01:41 PM
sharptonn

Nice razor! Rodgers are great! I think the HHT is most useful. I use it , the length of the blade, to determine when the bevel is set and I will move off of the 1000 stone!
08-23-2011, 02:48 PM
Lynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidmind

Interesting train of thought in these forums.

That's what I keep thinking every time I see this beat to death topic come back up. For new guys especially, the HHT really doesn't do much usually except for set predetermined conclusions. I am thinking mid to late 19th Century as well. Both razor and scales look like they should clean up nicely. Roger's are generally excellent shavers.
08-23-2011, 03:36 PM
gugi

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidmind

Please can anyone assist with getting the age within 10 Years?

Yes, indeed, interesting requests on these forums...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidmind

Other than someone in the link I provided saying 1840-1850. But it seams older than that based on the monkey tail and shape.

If by 'older' you mean more recent, then yes, I would agree, otherwise you're just making up stuff you don't have a clue about.

BTW "No. 6" is part of the address of the company, "No 6 Norfolk Street, Sheffield".
08-23-2011, 04:19 PM
Neil Miller

Dating any of Rodgers razors/knives is a bit problematical.

The first Royal Warrant was given by King George IV in 1822, so before that there would be no cutler to his/her/their majesty/ies stamped on the tang. King George IV died in 1830 to be succeeded by King William IV, who also awarded a Royal Warrant. It would be a bit unusual to have 'cutlers to their Majesties' stamped on a razor made during the reign of a current monarch, and although some say that the 'to their majesties' mark means multiple Royal Warrants, it is easier to believe that it was used during the reign of Victoria and Albert. Queen Victoria came to the throne in 1837, so at that time we would see 'Cutler to Her Majesty' until her marriage to Prince Albert in 1840, so if this train of thought is true then the razor can be no earlier than 1840. Prince Albert passed away in 1861, so we should see the mark revert back to Her Majesty, giving the cut-offs of 1840 - 1861 for your razor.

However, Rodgers had the habit of re-using old marks, so only the start date is (kind of!) definite - the razor could be decades more recent than 1861. Queen Victoria died in 1901 and I would expect to see the 'their Majesties' mark not used after that date, as by now we would have King Edward VII on the throne and a corresponding 'Cutlers to his Majesty' mark, as all the preceeding monarchs mentioned and Edward VII awarded Royal Warrants to Rodgers.

To me, the razor looks like it dates from 1870 - 1890.

Some other points that may (or may not) help are:

Joseph Rodgers became a Limited company in 1871, the name being changed to Joseph Rodgers & Sons Ltd
Razors dated post 1891 had 'England' stamped on the tang.
08-23-2011, 04:21 PM
Stubear

The other thing to bear in mind about the HHT is it can be totally misleading and doesnt tell you anything about how smooth the razor will shave.

A couple of examples:

- I can get a blade to pass the HHT off a 325 DMT, thats because the edge is like a hacksaw and grabs the hair. Would you want to shave with it? No.

- When I first started honing I had a 16k Shapton as a finisher and unfortunately Sheffield blades dont tend to like high grit synthetics IME, so the edges I was getting were a bit harsh to shave with but passed the HHT every time. Why? Because the blade was sharp enough to pass the HHT, but it was like dragging a shard of glass down my face because the edge wasnt as smooth as it could have been.

I completely agree with Lynn about the HHT and I personally dont use it at all.

Thats a nice blade you have there though, and it should be a great little shaver. And even better at that price!
08-23-2011, 05:19 PM
sidmind

I will never mention HHT on the forums again. I understand completely.

And thankyou Neil Miller for the very informative post, I had done much google and thread searching for similar information prior to posting, I had not found anything that detailed as of yet. I had read up on the difference of "her" vs "their" and due to the "light" stamping, I am still not 100% certain which my razor is stamped, but I am about 99% certain it's "their"

I will tally up your information with my other notes I had already made, that should keep me busy for a few hours, that's why I came here, to learn about razors and their history.
08-24-2011, 01:52 AM
onimaru55

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidmind

I will never mention HHT on the forums again. I understand completely.

That would be politically correct. I'm sure the bald guys can't identify with it :w
10-03-2011, 07:59 PM
ajkenne

3 Attachment(s)

Dating a Joseph Rodgers

Attachment 79495 Attachment 79496 Attachment 79497 Attachment 79495 Attachment 79496 Attachment 79497Thank you for the very informative information on Joseph Rodgers. I just received a nice old Joseph Rodgers and Sons that may be from the King George IV reign as the tang clearly says "Cutlers to His Majesty..." It has no evidence of the Maltese & Cross hallmarks seen on most Rodgers razors. It also has a very fat, and stubby tail similar to some of the earliest razors in the 1922 Lummus Antiques Magazine article. Curious to hear what you or others might say or assess in regard to its age.
10-03-2011, 08:23 PM
sidmind

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajkenne

Thank you for the very informative information on Joseph Rodgers. I just received a nice old Joseph Rodgers and Sons that may be from the King George IV reign as the tang clearly says "Cutlers to His Majesty..." It has no evidence of the Maltese & Cross hallmarks seen on most Rodgers razors. It also has a very fat, and stubby tail similar to some of the earliest razors in the 1922 Lummus Antiques Magazine article. Curious to hear what you or others might say or assess in regard to its age.

Hone that bad boy up, the one I posted above in my OP, is actually my best shaver, one of the other guys above said the same thing about his. and I know it to be fact. I love these razors. Mine still looks pretty much like it did in my photos, I never restored it, only used Metal polish and some MM on the Horn scales. it will be that way for another 100 years if I have my way.

Great find.
10-03-2011, 11:51 PM
gugi

Yes that's old razor and getting an edge on it would be challenging. It has suffered a bad case of poor honing.