Several Razors...have questions

I have several razors I am needing some info on....seems like there is not much info out there....
Like the years made....Location, quality and some personal opinions

First One is the "GENCO Fluid Steel"
Attachment 77133Attachment 77134Attachment 77135
Next one is "The Oriental Razor" made by "Lion Brand, Manufactured by Yankee Cutlery" has the number 603 on the side of it.
Attachment 77136Attachment 77137
Next one is called "Barlow & Sons Manufacturers Sheffield Corporate Mark ECHO"
Attachment 77138Attachment 77139
Last One for now is I have a "Shumate 256"
Attachment 77140

Would love some inputs here!!!!!

I haven't been at this long enough to be of any use to you regarding the history etc of these razors, however, I would like to have any of them.
By the looks they would clean up nicely and be good shavers, from what I have seen on the forums.
The Genco has a good reputation from what I have seen.
The Barlow and Sons, being Sheffield steel should hone up well also, even with the uneven hone wear.
I think that it is older than 1881 as it does not have 'Sheffield, England' on the tang. (I may have the date wrong)
Sorry I can't help with the rest.
I would just get them honed up, use them and see how they shave IMHO.
Geoff

From What I can tell the Barlow and Sons is definately early 1800's......ruffly around 1810 to maybe 1820's thats what I have come up with...This is the first restoration I am going to do...I have been making scales.

American steel (the Genco and maybe the Shumate; don't know about Yankee Cutlery but it sure sounds American) tends to be harder than German, and Sheffield is softer than German. You can hone out your American blades to a much finer grit and they'll keep a good edge out there. If you've got diamond spray or paste on a strop they'll respond well to that, but you may want to follow that up with CrOx paste. CrOx will leave a slightly gentler edge than will diamond.

I don't know any history, but those are all desirable shavers. If you haven't honed a big old smiling wedge before, you might want to check the Wiki first. Look up the Rolling X Stroke. There's already some hone wear there; I'd tape it with a couple of layers or you'll end up with a really tall bevel. Change the tape at each grit change, and use it all the way through your polish. You don't need it on for stropping, though.

Good luck, and show us the finished projects.

You've got some decent shavers there but the prize of the lot is the Genco AFAIC. I have 8 of the Fluid Steel, like any normal person, and I love the darn things. The one you have is in real nice shape. Get it honed by a pro if you're not expert yourself. SRP classifieds 'member services' has ads by members offering the service at a nominal fee.

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Originally Posted by TDITim

From What I can tell the Barlow and Sons is definately early 1800's......ruffly around 1810 to maybe 1820's thats what I have come up with...

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Not quite. The manufacturer is supposed to have been active c1828-1856 and the blade definitely fits that period and not the early 1800s.

James Barlow & Sons was located in Rockingham Street in 1856, and then Garden Street in 1859. The corporate mark was "ECHO", which had been used by Peter Spurr. James Barlow died on 15 June 1869, aged 78. He was succeeded by his sons, James and John. By the 1870's, the company located Norfolk Street. James died on 20 June 1900. His brother continued the business. Between about 1904-1918, the company address was Era Works, Wheeldon Street, but it had ceased business by 1919.
The blade in the first post was made in 1850's. IMO.

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Originally Posted by Havachat45

it is older than 1881 as it does not have 'Sheffield, England' on the tang. (I may have the date wrong)

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It was 1891 :)

I think that the Genco may have been made by the Case co. They make good razors and pocket knives. They are still operational.

@ Manah: You, sir, are a wealth of historical information. Please be sure to entrust your wealth of resources into the hands of another before anything ever happens to you or it. Where you get all of this info is beyond me, but I'd sure hate to ever have it lost!

@ Tim: Tim, I don't know aboout the other razors, but I've got a couple Gencos and have read up on them. The Bradford made Gencos are made by the Case company after it had bought out Geneva Cutlery and relocated production of razors to Bradford. I have one Bradford wedge I got from Larry. It's a great razor. I have another Genco from Geneva New York (Made by Geneva Cutlery Company: Genco) that's a Gold Seal. It is by far my favorite shaver and holds an edge longer than my German blades. (Can't say about the Bradford Genco Wedge as I haven't been shaving with it long enough). Great razor in either case. I believe Case bought out Geneva around 1935 and continued production in Geneva for some 25yrs (around 1960). At that time production was moved to Bradford and continued for about 5yrs before Case dropped the Genco name and just made "Case" razors.

Manah probably has more specifics.

Peace,
Jim

I have a razor with the same “The Celebrated Oriental Razor” etched on the blade. My razor was manufactured by Matador and made in Germany. I have a Yankee Cutlery Co. razor #928. It says Magnetized and was also made in Germany. I guess branding and company name changes were as popular then as now.

By the way, The Celebrated Oriental Razor gives a great shave.

In 1936, W. R. Case & Sons acquire razor stocks and trademark of Genco Corporation.
And the stamp became: Genco Co. Bradford PA.

This Genco Fluid Steel razor, from catalog 1922, was made by Geneva Cutlery Co.:

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Originally Posted by manah

In 1936, W. R. Case & Sons acquire razor stocks and trademark of Genco Corporation.
And the stamp became: Genco Co. Bradford PA.

This Genco Fluid Steel razor, from catalog 1922, was made by Geneva Cutlery Co.:

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So...Is that to say that Genco's made post 1936, even if produced in Geneva New York were stamped "Genco Co Bradford PA"? Or, is the information that Case maintained production in Geneva incorrect? Thanks!

Jim

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post 1936

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Geneva Cutlery didn't have "post 1936".
In 1935, Geneva Cutlery Inc. became a part of the Edward Katzinger Company of Chicago, Illinois.
The name was then changed to Geneva Forge. They made all types of cutlery under the trademark EKCO.

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Originally Posted by manah

Geneva Cutlery didn't have "post 1936".
In 1935, Geneva Cutlery Inc. became a part of the Edward Katzinger Company of Chicago, Illinois.
The name was then changed to Geneva Forge. They made all types of cutlery under the trademark EKCO.

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Thanks, but that doesn't answer my question. I've read several places that after Case acquired the Genco name they continued to produce razors at the Geneva plant. Some sources have suggested that Case continued to produce Genco razors at the Geneva, NY plant for as many as 25yrs before transferring production to their Bradford, PA plant. The result would be that "Genco" Geneva Cutlery razors were produced by Geneva Cutlery in Geneva, NY until 1935; that "Genco" Genco, Co. razors were produced by Case in Geneva, NY until as late as 1960; and that "Genco" Genco, Co. Bradford, PA. razors were produced by Case in Bradford, PA from as late as 1960 to as late as 1965. This could all be wrong, as it's pulling information from several other sources which may or may not have had all the facts...but this is my understanding at this point.

Your information seems to indicate that Geneva Cutlery Company in Geneva, NY produced Genco razors until 1935, and then sold rights to the "Genco" name in 1936 to Case, at which point Case began to produce razors in Bradford, PA (not continuing production in Geneva, NY) with the Genco Co name. That would contradict some of the information I have found in the past, but your sources may be more accurate. I'm just asking if I understand you correctly. :tu

You've asked a deep question.:)
So. What we have:
1. The razor division and the trademark "Genco" was sold in 1936 to Case.
2. Since 1935, Geneva was a part of the Edward Katzinger Company of Chicago.
3. The forge in Geneva NY was closed in 1960 and moved to Chicago.
4. Genco - A trademark used from 1916-1935 by Geneva Cutlery and from 1936-1965 by W.R. Case & Sons.

From Case Knife History, by Bob Wurzelbacher:
"Depression, W.R. Case & Sons acquired the equipment to produce household cutlery and, in 1936, patented Concave Ground Household Knives. It was also in 1936 that Case bought the Genco Company, manufacturers of straight razors."

From Case Chronology:
1936: W. R. Case & Sons acquire razor stocks and trademark of Genco Corporation.

I'm not ready to answer now, who used Geneva NY forge till 1960, Edward Katzinger or Case.
I think - Edward Katzinger Company of Chicago, because after 1960, it was moved to Chicago.
But Case continued to make Genco razors till 1965 without that forge.
But this is only my opinion.:)
I'll try to find some info.

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Originally Posted by manah

You've asked a deep question.:)
So. What we have:
1. The razor division and the trademark "Genco" was sold in 1936 to Case.
2. Since 1935, Geneva was a part of the Edward Katzinger Company of Chicago.
3. The forge in Geneva NY was closed in 1960 and moved to Chicago.
4. Genco - A trademark used from 1916-1935 by Geneva Cutlery and from 1936-1965 by W.R. Case & Sons.

From Case Knife History, by Bob Wurzelbacher:
"Depression, W.R. Case & Sons acquired the equipment to produce household cutlery and, in 1936, patented Concave Ground Household Knives. It was also in 1936 that Case bought the Genco Company, manufacturers of straight razors."

From Case Chronology:
1936: W. R. Case & Sons acquire razor stocks and trademark of Genco Corporation.

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Indeed. It would appear that these are the facts. How they all pertain to razors; it may not be possible to deduce. Suffice it to say that the Bradford stamped razors were certainly Case produced. The Geneva stamped razors may have been produced by Geneva Cutlery prior to 35, or possibly by Case post 35, but determining that will take more work.

Your avatar suits you. :D

I am very confused now.....so where can find out some definate answers on THE GENCO
Well.....you guys sure do have alot of knowledge...WOW
And yes the Oriental Razor does have a great shave.

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Originally Posted by TDITim

I am very confused now.....so where can find out some definate answers on THE GENCO
Well.....you guys sure do have alot of knowledge...WOW
And yes the Oriental Razor does have a great shave.

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The facts are in Manah's posts above, cited from books and sources online. There may be more facts to be had about Genco razors, but so far as YOUR razor is concerned, it was made by Case sometime before 1965. That's what we know. It may have been made between 60-65 which would be a pretty narrow window of time to narrow it down to. (I'd be pretty happy to be able to zone in on when my razors were made to within five years!) BUT, there's a possibility that it was made between 36-65, which is still a pretty good window to narrow things down to in the razor world (from what I've seen).

They all seem to be shaver material. I would agree that the Echo is the big prize!:cool: Nice pile! If you desired Expert Opinion, You have recieved it! Nice work, Manah and Big Jim! Those Genevas and Gencos are great! They deliver catfish belly smooth shaves!
......get it on....Tom

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Originally Posted by BigJim

The facts are in Manah's posts above, cited from books and sources online. There may be more facts to be had about Genco razors, but so far as YOUR razor is concerned, it was made by Case sometime before 1965. That's what we know. It may have been made between 60-65 which would be a pretty narrow window of time to narrow it down to. (I'd be pretty happy to be able to zone in on when my razors were made to within five years!) BUT, there's a possibility that it was made between 36-65, which is still a pretty good window to narrow things down to in the razor world (from what I've seen).

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I remember you from the Lathering Contest Big Jim. Anyways....I figure for mid 1900's myself..just wasn't for sure....and yes a 5 year window is absolutely awesome. I just got my scales sanded down and I am starting the CA process at this moment....the first wash or base coat is applied for one side.....now its a waiting game.....for a while at least....Hopefully this Cocobolo wood doesn't seep oil through the CA and screw up the top coat......That leads me to my next question...what is the best top coat after the CA......Can I use a Spray on Polyurethane or Spar Urethane?

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Originally Posted by TDITim

I remember you from the Lathering Contest Big Jim. Anyways....I figure for mid 1900's myself..just wasn't for sure....and yes a 5 year window is absolutely awesome. I just got my scales sanded down and I am starting the CA process at this moment....the first wash or base coat is applied for one side.....now its a waiting game.....for a while at least....Hopefully this Cocobolo wood doesn't seep oil through the CA and screw up the top coat......That leads me to my next question...what is the best top coat after the CA......Can I use a Spray on Polyurethane or Spar Urethane?

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There are several threads on CA finish in the restorations forum. I've got some CA glue, but haven't been able to get the time to get to that stage yet. However, most guys lightly sand between coats to take care of high spots, then on the last coat sanding shouldn't be necessary, but a little Ren Wax never hurts to up the shine. Nothing needs to go on top. (Suggest a light wipe of the wood with acetone/mineral spirits to remove the top coat of oil before the first layer of CA...should set you up just great)

The lathering contest was a lot of fun. Your pics were great.