Update re: Derivation of "Rattler"

Some time ago there was a discussion about the original meaning of the word rattler. Some, including PapaBull, got near the truth but what was missing was anything concrete - something in print.

I was reading a book by Charles Holtzapffel the other day (Turning & Mechanical Manipulation, 1850) and came across a reference to rattlers:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2..._rattler02.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2..._rattler01.jpg

Clicking on the images makes them full-size, but the relevant paragraph is:

"...In some few cases the edge of the razor is ground lengthways [...] and in this way any degree of thinness may be given [...] This mode of grinding the razor is however more difficult, and the feebleness of the edge may be thereby easily carried to excess, and from the vibration which they are liable when applied to a strong beard, they are called by the Sheffield cutlers, rattler razors..."

Charles was quite an authority. His father John Jacob emigrated from Germany to set up a lathe and tooling firm in London in 1793, in Charing Cross Road. Charles joined the firm in 1827 and eventually took over the running of it. His legacy is impressive, from printing banknotes, ornamental turning, inventing a new mathematical scale to his most famous work - Turning & Mechanical Manipulation, regarded as the 'bible' for generations of woodworkers.

Regards,
Neil

As always, your posts are informative and valuable. Thanks for your efforts, Neil.

Great stuff Neil. Is there any chance that you could provide the previous set of figures (fig. 1033, etc.) that show the rattler grind? It's not clear if this is a wedge (as in fig. 1034) or a more concave grind. I have a W&B Barber's Rattler that is hollow ground, but fig. 1034 shows a near wedge.

Regards - Walt

Is this therefore similar to the grind of the Tuckmar Tee's? where the razor has a "T" shaped profile the same as fig 1033?

If dia. 1033 shows the first thinly ground design to come out of sheffield, then that should not disqualify other thinly ground razors of different geometries (which would come to Sheffield later) to also be labeled as rattlers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Walt

Great stuff Neil. Is there any chance that you could provide the previous set of figures (fig. 1033, etc.) that show the rattler grind? It's not clear if this is a wedge (as in fig. 1034) or a more concave grind. I have a W&B Barber's Rattler that is hollow ground, but fig. 1034 shows a near wedge.

Regards - Walt

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Unfortunately Walt, the other figures show grinding apparatus. I'm sure Hoglahoo is correct - once the name stuck it began to acquire more interpretations. It is hard, though, to imagine a proper rattler with a slight hollow being ground on a large diameter wheel that would be necessary - say 10 inches or more for a very slight hollow. Such a wheel would remove the 'overhang' of the spine too much. There are maybe two ways around it - a smaller diameter wheel 'walked' down the blade with some regrinding of the spine, or a wheel on edge dressed to be domed to suit the hollow required?

Regards,
Neil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tekbow

Is this therefore similar to the grind of the Tuckmar Tee's? where the razor has a "T" shaped profile the same as fig 1033?

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I've had a few of those Tees - I'm sure I can remember the grind marks going in the same direction as the spine, so it would be similar in my opinion.

Regards,
Neil

Neil,

Thanks a ton for researching this! :tu Now I know beyond the shadow of a doubt.

If only life's other questions could be answered so conclusively. :hmmm: :)