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Trying to figure out some apporx age on these. In order from top to bottom:
John Creswick
Sheffield
M Hobson
Warranted
D Dane Cutlery Co
Germany
** Not scanned A Pattak - I cant find anything on Google. I will get a scan after work.
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...1/143f6c65.jpg
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...1/83153cb0.jpg
Thanks for any info.
Without the likes of Manah's references: top two mid to late (50's-70's) 19th century. Bottom one, late 19th/early 20th. Nice bone scales on all, worth honing to see if you get to good steel at the very edge. (Personally, I like the look of them.)
I am a fan of old bone scales. I have a few other pairs that have bad blades, but I am worried about taking them apart and trying to re-pin them. The bones are all thin and I just dont feel confident enough that I wont crack or break them completely. These I plan on cleaning the blades the best I can and polishing the 'ole bone (adult humor there).
Are you sure you have got the names correct? The reason I ask is because there was a John Creswick, cutler, but he died well before 1800 and that razor doesn't look old enough to me. There was another firm - T & J Creswick - stated in 1815 by Thomas and James Creswick. They had four arrows crossed by another four arrows as their trade mark. IN 1819 Nathaniel Creswick joined the firm and it became T. J. & N Creswick. They are primarily known for silver plated wares, though. James had a son - Thomas John Creswick (born 1827) who set-up in his own right in 1852, but he went bankrupt (1857) and became a butcher instead.
I can't find much about M. Hobson either, but there was an H (Henry) Hobson, trademark was a screwpress and the word 'Express' - he was son of cutlery dealer Edward Hobson and he married Ann, daughter of John Pearce, another cutlery dealer. Henry started his cutlery outlet in 1845. He joined business with his brother John as Hobson Brothers in 1852 but by 1876 Henry was trading with his son as H. Hobson and Son from Queen Street and Houndsditch, London. When Henry retired (1883) his son took over the business and it became known as John Hobson & Sons. Further down the line there was another Henry Hobson and a return to sheffield (West Street, Carver Street and Eyre Lane) and another renaming to Henry Hobson & Sons. In 1918 they moved to Arundel Street, Sheffield. They ceased trading in 1930 and the mark was acquired by John Clarke.
A capital 'H' could be mistaken for a capital 'M' I think. The only reference I could find to M. Hobson is from this forum - here - supposed to say M. Hobson & Son on the tang although this is almost certainly H. Hobson & Son
Regards,
Neil
Possibly, he managed to do something.:)Quote:
James had a son - Thomas John Creswick (born 1827) who set-up in his own right in 1852, but he went bankrupt (1857) and became a butcher instead.
Thomas John Creswick was born in Norton, Derbyshire, in about 1827, the son of James and Hannah Creswick. By 1852, T.J. Creswick was listed in his own right as a silver plater in Gell Street. He was in partnership with W.W. Harrison, though that was dissolved in 1856. A partnership with John Waterhouse Sansom followed, but that ended in the following year. Creswick announced that he was starting work as a commission agent, but by December 1857 he was bankrupt. In his later years, he was a butcher, but was bankrupt again in 1868. Apparently, he returned to the silver trade in St Philip's Road. In 1881, the Census enumerated his as a retired silver merchant, living at Birley House, Birley Carr. He may have died in 1884.
He may have done, but I have two troubles with him:Quote:
Originally Posted by manah
(a) His first name is Thomas, John is his middle name. Not that it's unusual for someone to use a middle name in preference, but I can't find any listing for him that calls him just 'John' - they all say T. J. or Thomas John; and
(b) He is listed as a silver-plater, not a cutler.
His first business partner, William Wheatcroft Harrison was an electro-plater, so that does not seem to point to any razor output and even if they did dabble in razors surely Harrison's name would be on the product too? After that partnership fell through he went into business with John Waterhouse Sansom, formerly of Sansom and Davenport (1853-6) who were silver and electro platers. After the partnership with T. J. Creswick was dissolved Sansom went to live in Le Havre - as a wine merchant. Again, not a particularly promising lead.
Regards,
Neil
A HUGE Thank You to Both Neil and Manah. The wealth of knowledge you both possess about the history of razors is fascinating and informative. A true pleasure reading your posts gentlemen.
No problem Joe - it's a pleasure! I would like a close-up of those tang stampings though, if possible, just to see the John Creswick a little more clearly and to see whether that is an M or an H on the Hobson razor.
Regards,
Neil
Thanks, Joe.
Yes. Henry Hobson & Son and Hobson Brothers are well-known Sheffield companies.
http://www.strazors.com/uploads/imag...y_hobson_1.jpg
I've found M. Hobson, Warranred. It's listed in Goins' Encyclopedia, but without any info.:(
Yes Manah - I've seen it in Goins, my copy of which is amended by a HUGE amount of corrections - so many that I rarely rely on it for accurate information anymore, with the exception of the more well-known companies that are easy to independently verify. Some pages in my copy are covered with so many hand-written corrections that I haven't got space to add any more! To the uninitiated it is a real minefield, which is very sad, because the core of the work is good.
Regards,
Neil
Neil, you're right about Goins.
I usually use it to find the search direction and it can be helpful.:)
THANK YOU BOTH!
The amount of information is bountiful. I will get some better shots of the tangs, but the names are posted correctly. The "M" could possibly be and "H", but the midbar is positioned high for a capitol letter H.
Here are pics of the tang form the Creswick and Hobson.
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...81/crswick.jpg.
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...hobsontang.jpg
That's great - it certainly clears (for me) the erroneous 'M. Hobson' attribution. It is clearly (again, for me) and 'H' and not an 'M' - Henry Hobson.
The other adds a little confusion though! It is quite clearly John Creswick as you said. I still do not believe that is for Thomas John Creswick, so all I can think of is that the company of a much earlier John Creswick survived in some way, such as another company or relative making use of his registered mark. Info that might be pertinent:
John CRESWICK. Born in 1718 in Sheffield. Occupation: Cutler, free in 1738, but by 1792 was farmer.
On 20 Apr 1748 when John was 30, he married Elizabeth CRESWICK, daughter of Thomas CRESWICK & Mary JACKSON, in Sheffield. Born in 1728 in Sheffield.
They had the following children:
i. Thomas. Born in 1749 in Wadsley Hall, Sheffield. Thomas died in Sheffield on 1 May 1824, he was 75. Buried ? Jun 1824 in Ecclesall Churchyard. Occupation: Cutler, free in 1786, also a farmer.
ii. Hannah. Born in 1752 in Sheffield.
On 22 Oct 1778 when Hannah was 26, she married Thomas WARRINGTON, in Sheffield.
iii. John. Born in 1754 in Sheffield. Occupation: Cutler, free in 1776.
iv. Joseph. Born in 1763 in Sheffield. Joseph died in Sheffield in 1838, he was 75. Buried in 1763 in Ecclesall Churchyard. Occupation: Cutler free in 1792, also farmer with bro. Richard at Plough Inn of which he was joint tenant.
Another possibility was John Creswick 'hardwareman and working cutler' from Sheffield who moved to New York in the early 1800s (1820 - 1840) to pursue dental implement manufacture.
Thanks for the pics!
Regards,
Neil
Thanks a lot Neil. You really have provided a good amount of insight and direct to go with regarding these razors. Next step is getting them all cleaned up...Something I fear because of the bones. I think I am first going to attempt to clean them up without removing the scales.