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Hello, I am looking at the 8/8 friodur in order to try out a large razor. The sites I am looking at both have them. My questions is were their vintage 8/8 friodur and how do you tell those from the modern regrinds?
I am looking and one difference I see is the spine work, they have different patterns. Thank you for your help.
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I have always broken Friodurs into Three Generations in my mind..
There are the older Henckels I would guess the cutoff is about 1960 and earlier these tend to be very smooth shavers and to find one in a larger size is pretty rare...
The second generation is what you have a picture of there, now I have read all kinds of stories about these razors, but honestly what is really true, I don't know what to believe, as I have never seen any proof... I can tell you that I have honed at least 200 different ones and every one has had a nice straight grind and given up a good shave.. For those of us that Restore /Customize razors the tangs on these tend to give some small headaches..
The edges take a bit more "thought" about what stones/hones to use, and a bit more finesse to get a smooth edge out of them... But in the end when the rubber hits the road or the lather hits the face they are very good shavers...
The third generation was the brand new offings from Henckels that released about 2 years ago, these are a whole different razor and not available in that size that I have ever seen...
There was also a Single Man (logo) Henckels that was found out there about a year ago that I did some testing on that was also a ok shaver nothing special nothing bad just a shaver...
I have an 8/8 like that, got it over at Shavingshop. It's been very reliable and is a superb shaver.
Here are two original Henckels Friodur razors. The square point is a 7/8's and the round point an 8/8's. All of the Original Fridour's I have and have seen have the Friodur inlay. THe others like you picture have original Friodur blanks but may have been professionally ground after they were discontinued. Do note that to the best of my knowledge, the only Henckels that were ground and assembled by Henckels are stamped Zwillingswerk. The rest were ground and assembled in other locations around the world, usually in the country they were sold in.
I picked up one of the "regrinds" a while back, and it was such a sloppy and uneven job, I couldnt stand looking at it. Never even bothered trying to hone or shave with it. Just put it back up for sale.
Ok, sounds like no matter where I buy it will not be a true vintage. I am confused about when Joed mentioned Zwillingswerk. One of the razors for sure has Zwillingswerk on the tang. Would that mean there is a chance it is a real vintage? The two I am looking at are this one from CS and the other from TheShaveingShop. Let me know if one seems better than the other. The one on CS is being rescaled so the problem mentioned is no longer a problem.
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One day I held my vintage friodur next to the scalloped back newer version and the differences were obvious. The old one was heavier despite being 6/8 and the newer one 7/8. It had thicker spine, not only as in 'missing metal due to scalloping' kind of way, but just thicker sideways too, and the grind was somewhat different (again the old one is weighed more towards the spine, and then hollows out a lot).
I have a photograph somewhere, so if I have time I'll look for it later tonight.
I don't think you can just buy the vintage ones - those are no longer produced, so you only get them when somebody sells one of theirs. The stuff that's in stock at various retailers is the newer thing - most likely newly ground (may be newly heat treated too) old blanks.
If it helps, I suspect they did produce the vintage ones past the 60's.
This one was made for the 1981 250th year anniversary.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x...s/DSC_0090.jpg
I also have two other Vintage models: #14 and #17 (8/8 and 7/8 respectively). I've never been tempted to buy one of the new regrinds, the fit and finish looks pretty random.
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x...s/DSC_0618.jpg
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x...s/DSC_0746.jpg
I have an 8/8 on the way, so I'll add photos and observations when I get it. It's from the newly-ground blanks, so I imagine it would be quite different.
At one time I purchased a scalloped 7/8ths, but I returned it as I was not satisfied with the quality of the scalloping. I never shaved with it.
Another 250th anniversary:
http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/a...aryFriodur.jpg
My two favorites:
http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/a...riodurPair.jpg
I lean toward the vintage 72 1/2 where the 72 1/2 is stamped on the shank rather than the tail.
My limited experience indicates the tail is longer, thinner, and more elegant on the shank stamped versions. Either will shave equally as well and can be had up to 7/8ths, although mine are all 13/16ths.
I am really liking those Anniversary editions :tu those are just damn purdy :p
FWIW, mine, which I got from Shavingshop is stamped Zwillingswerk, not fully visible here, but that's what it says:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/4343/friodur4.jpg
I did not get mine from John, but mine is also a 2nd generation 8/8 Spanish point and is stamped the same... But as I said before, the entire re-grind story has never been verified that I have seen, so the actual source of these blade is still a mystery to me...
http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...d-acrylic.html
(Wow tons old old history in that thread :) )
This is another of the same type the I customized and it also is stamped... :shrug:.
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Guys, if the blanks were made and possibly heat threated then stored and discontinued they would have been stamped already. The razor sold in the 'second generation' and stamped Zwillingswerk do not carry the same history as those made by Henckels. Think of a reground Greaves. Just becaue it is stamped Greaves doesn't mean the last person to grind the razor worked for Greaves.
Those vintage Friodurs are now on my list.
Beautiful! Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us :tu:
I guess the bigger question Joe is where/who provided the entire re-grind story?????? I only know of one source of this story, and I will just say that source was easily convinced of other stories too.. Whether this re-grind story is true and how we know that, is really my question???Quote:
Originally Posted by Joed
Personally, I understand the whole stamp thing, but some of the others might not so thanks for explaining it...
I heard the same story, re the blanks/regrinds/second generation: several cases/boxes of Friodur blanks where found in Germany several years ago (so they're made in Germany, but the grind wasn't finished in the Henckels factory). A couple of cases stayed in Germany and you can still buy from some guys there and a couple was sold to vendors in the US...
I bought one of those "regrinds", so I'll try to post very detailed photos when it arrives. We'll see how it goes, I guess :)
Well, in my opinion Zwillingswerk and Twinworks is just the same but for different markets. My vintage No.17 is stamped Zwillingswerk on the shank.
I have 2 Friodurs:-
451 5/8 is stamped Twinworks
89 1/2 is stamped Zwillingswerk
Both have gold Friodur inlay on the scales and are stamped (not printed) on the tang.
As with most of the straight razor information we work with what we have available and what we can deduce from there. It's been so long since I read about the Henckels regrinds I really can't remember where I read it but I do know it didn't come from Henckels. The other part, which we can deduce is that I have not seen any vintage Henckels with Spanish points or spines worked as the '2nd generation' razors display. Take that, the flawless finish on gen 2 razors as well as the shank issues, it is not hard to believe that these razors have been finished off after they were discontinued. Now that I am thinking about it some more I believe one of the last German craftsman that ground razors in the day was rumored to have these blanks on hand and finished them off himself. They may have been done by Mr. Wacker himself, but that is just a guess of what I may remember from the original story. Anyone that remembers a few yrs back when the gen 2 Henckels were a big topic on SRP please chime in. I guess I can do a search to see what I can come up with but I know for sure I don't have the time available to do that this week. I look forward to refreshing my memory on this topic if someone can assist.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
That 250 anniversary model is a beautiful razor,have you ever used it? it looks untuched.
I bought mine NOS, I've used it twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzley1
I bought a 7/8 Friodur with the same worked spine on the Wacker site a few months ago. It came shave ready and so far I have only needed to strop the razor (used about 4 times so far). I am pleased with the blade. I bought the cheap plastic scales to save money, which with hindsight was a mistake - I don't like them.
It was my understanding that "regrind" on the original wedge/near wedge blanks made for Henckels was to change the blade to "hollow" grind. It would appear from this post that not all "regrinds" have been of the same quality??
My understanding of this is that these are not "regrinds", but actual blanks that were tempered and cryo-treated by Henckels and ground for the first time recently by someone who was working for one of the current razor manufacturers.
Please note that I'm not 100% sure of the whole process behind the creation of a razor, but isn't one of the main features of these Friodurs that they are an exceptional steel due to the treatment they receive? So would it matter who ground them, as long as the grinding was a job well done? I mean, sure, they won't have the caché of a vintage, but if they shave well, that's the most important thing, IMHO.
I'm just excited to get a nice 8/8 in quality steel for a reasonable price. I like the Spanish point and worked spine design, so that's a plus. I'll probably rescale it and use the plastic scales for a lesser blade.
I don't purchase a razor unless I intend to use it. I've shaved with mine several times. She shaves very, very well!Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzley1
Thank you everyone, I think with the information here my questions have been answered.
If I find anything I will post it here. Joe I am REALLY looking forard to any additional information you can share :tu:Quote:
Originally Posted by Joed
I got my Henckels Friodur 8/8" today and shaved with it this evening. It might not have been ground by Henckels, but the blade shaves very nicely. It was smooth and comfortable and I like the finish, which is a bit more utilitarian. It's not mirror, but more of a satin finish, and there's a roughness to the blade in terms of the grind and spinework that appeals to me. You know you're holding a tool in your hand.
Anyway, here are my pics. I am going to rescale it, either in black horn or maybe bocote wood. I'm leaning toward the horn because big razors with imposing black horn scales are sweet.
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Glad you like the razor, I really like mine also. The scales mine came in were real crap so I also rescaled it. The black horn sounds nice. Here is the results of my rescale:
Very nice scales, Joe. What wood is that?
Thank you. It's called lace wood. I don't know it's proper name. I purchased it from a local Wood Craft.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdto
Oh yeah, I've seen lacewood before, just with a smaller pattern. My uncle often uses it in his woodworking projects because of the small detail.
Wow guys: what a nice Henckels razors many of you have shown in this topic.
Thanks for posting your pics: I've definitely learnt a few things when reading.
Regards, Jazor.
