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Good morning gents,
I have just got this little (4/8) razor, I thought it was a Wosty when I bought it but now I'm getting uncertain about its paternity... I just buffed it a little to get away the dirt and the pipe I saw is quite strange... It makes me thing of an old Johnson's mark... does anybody have more info about this mark?
Thanks!
Someone else asked about the same mark, or very close to it recently. IIRC manah posted that it is G.Johnson ..... I could be wrong though ... I was wrong once before.
So, it's not G. Johnson's mark. I couldn't find a dart near the pipe. :)
And it's not a Wostenholm razor, it's not his pipe.
And now. I'll try to tell my idea.
I believe the razor was made by William and John Birks.
It was a very old Sheffield company. The founder was William Birks, who became Master Cutler in 1766. At the beginning it was Birks, Withers & Sykes. It was one of the first enterprises to register a silver mark in 1773. It has a complicated genealogy, because it involved three notable families, several Master Cutlers, and partnerships that became intertwined. The original partners were William Birks (Master Cutler , 1766); Benjamin Withers (Master Cutler, 1756); John Sykes and Dennis Sykes. The address was variously given as Pincin Lane or Pinston Croft Lane - thoroughfares that now correspond to Pinstone Street.
Birks, Withers & Sykes was dissolved in 1780. William Birks & Son then registered a silver mark in 1781 in Norfolk Street. When William Birks died in 1783, aged 55, control passed to his sons - William Birks (Master Cutler, 1795) and John Birks. Henceforth, the Birks' operated alone as manufacturers of table knives and razors until about 1817 (with a pipe device and "Fabre" mark).
So. It was a short history of the company.
And as I could understand, "pipe" mark wasn't used after.
Here the mark on your razor and William and John Birks mark:
http://manah.strazors.com/birks_logo_1.jpg
After all, is it possible to see picture of all razor?
I want to see the razor, that was made in the early 1800s.
P.S. Of course, I can be wrong.:)
I think you are absolutely right, Alex - the pipe itself is quite distinctive. It also shows that a distinct lineage of tang shapes cannot be used to directly a date a razor within so many decades.
Regards,
Neil
Thank you for your precious work, Manah.
I watched closely at your pics and at the mark on this little razor (it's 13 cm. from the toe to the heel), and It doesn't seem to me that it is the same mark. As you can see from this picture, the pipe is more similar to the one of Wostenholm than to the Birks' one in the funnel, but the other part is straight as in the Birks'. Except that the end of it is not square like theirs. I cleaned it a little more with dremel and buffing point.
Attachment 83383
Also there is this other mark, which really are two marks, that are incomprehensibly under the scales and can be seen only if you open the razor at a certain angle. I think that they are just rust heavy pitting, but who knows...
Ok. Can we see the picture of all blade/razor?
To know, about what time period we're talking.
Oh yes sure here it is!
Ti has one stabilizer and is a half hollow ground. Sorry for the poor picture. I shot it this morning at dawn, I wanted to try again tonight.
Yes. May be, you're right. It's not Birks. For me, the razor doesn't look like that was made in early 1800s.
Ok. There was one more maker with the similar mark.
C.P. Gerry. But I know nothing about him. Only the mark:
Alex, thank you for that detailed bit of research. Great sleuthing, my friend.
Having seen the cleaned-up mark I have to say that it is totally unlike any of the other pipe marks I have seen!
The top of the bowl is heart-shaped like some others, but unlike the other ones with this bowl shape the stem is dead straight, not curved.
The small 'rest' (the place the clay-pipe maker would have put his mark) at the bottom of the bowl is shown below the stem in all the other marks - in this one it appears to be on top of the stem.
The only mark I can find that does not have a rest below the stem, combined with a straight stem, is that of William Webster of Whitely Wood, Sheffield - a knife maker in the latter part of the 1700s. However, as well as being too early in date, the top of Webster's pipe bowl is straight, not heart-shaped.
Is it even a pipe? It probably is, but it also looks like a long thin tapering dart with a heart at the end of it. Those marks obscured by the scales (hands up - I admit I would have taken the scales off and then re-pinned it!) look like makers marks to me rather than corrosion.
There is the possibility that the maker was continental, too, which would explain why the mark does not resemble any of the other marks so far mentioned.
Yet another mystery...
Regards,
Neil
I was considering Webster as well, with the same objection... In effect this razor comes from Hungary, it might be continental... The marks by the scales seemed intentional to me, in the first moment, but then I looked at them with a magnifying glass and I could not find any shape in them, that's why I thought they were due to corrosion. There is a similar mark on the other side, also covered by the scales, and it has no particular shape as well. Couldn't they be due to some working procedure?
Hi Mauri - yes, they could be due to something unintentional, maybe caused by how the pivot hole was struck, for example. It would have been done at the same time as the makers mark was struck - before the final heat treatments - by a hardened steel spike. If there was some upraised area on the anvil, for instance, the force of the hammer blow driving the spike through the tang could also pick up the marks on the anvil, causing indentation/s on the other side.
Even the way the spike was made or held could cause it: it could be a simple spike held by tongs that were too low down and came into contact with the tang, or from a 'T' shaped spike that had worn down enough to let the supporting bar hit the tang.
In your pic they do look quite deep though. If they were makers marks they could have lost some clarity when the tang was reground to its final shape and polished...
Interesting!
Regards,
Neil
The shape of it and since it is upside down for a pipe. I would say it's a candle snuffer, used to put out a lit candle.
What if it's really a Golf Club! Who was making razors and playing the Golf in Scotland back then?? It opens up a whole new avenue of inquire!!
