I don't have any frameback razors. Not by plan, just by chance.
A question to people who _do_ have them:
. . . Is the steel of a frameback blade tempered any harder than the steel of
. . . a typical hollow-ground razor?
Thanks --
. Charles
Printable View
I don't have any frameback razors. Not by plan, just by chance.
A question to people who _do_ have them:
. . . Is the steel of a frameback blade tempered any harder than the steel of
. . . a typical hollow-ground razor?
Thanks --
. Charles
I only had one Helje tested at the tang & it was 57.5. Not all that hard. Sure the edge quenches faster so maybe a tad harder than the tang.
Whether it was the exception or the rule I dunno but of the few I've honed I'd say they were average hardness & not in the 60 + range.
In my experience they are no harder that standard straights.
I own a few.. The western ones seem to have the same hardness.... The japanese one is so hard it is not fun to shave with... But th swiss, french, and American are great and nice shavers.
I would say stiffer, rather than harder. They tend to be not as finely grinded (often older and pre dates the 1/1 and extra hollow ground technique), but I can only speak for the Swedes that has passed through my hands. I own a couple of Japanese framebacks and they seems to be harder and def _much_ heavier in general.
I would agree with them being stiffer. The frame is usually made of different steel. A similar thing happens with concrete. If you reinforce it with steel its characteristics change.
I've only tried 3 framebacks - all Swedes. Sometimes their non-straight edge profile takes some accommodating of strokes to hone, but the steel seems like most others. The shave seems much like that of a comparable 1/2 grind. Stiff, like a 1/4 hollow, but light weight like a full hollow. For me, the feel is odd, but the shaves are undeniably good. They nail the tough stubble in difficult areas like a heavy grind.
I don't know anything about framebacks, but I do know something about steel. Harder is stiffer for the same physical size/shape. If they laminate softer steel to the back, it is more ductile (bends without breaking). The skinnier blade may harden up harder (Rc) but most steels are then tempered to relieve internal stresses and remove some of the hardness to make them more ductile. High carbon steels (.95% C) usually can be heat treated into the low/mid 60's range, but are tempered back to the high 50's low 60's to make them less brittle. Steels are heated above their critical temperature, quenched (cooled quickly) and then usually heat treated again at a much lower temperature (~400-500° F) to soften them and make them "tougher".
I don't think that framebacks are harder but if you don't tape the spine/frame, especially on Swedish framebacks, it can give you the illusion that the blade is extra hard as the frame is generally softer than the blade.
I was surprised by how soft the spine was on my ti framebacks...
For me setting a bevel was not bad though
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theseus
Not really. The edge part of a frameback is as thin as the edge on a regaulr razor.
Sure, the spine part of the blade may be harder, but that is of no consequence.
The spine itself is often softer, as it is not (or at least not usually) quenched.
I thought that the makers might have used harder steel for the blade -- sounds like the Japanese might do that, but Western makers don't.
Thanks everyone.
. Charles
It's the other way around: Japanese smiths typically use softer steel, or even plain Iron for the spine and the tang.Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcohen1945
Hard steel was a scarce resource in Japan, and fairly labor intensive to produce. So they used it as sparingly as possible.
In the west, it seems that smiths just made the entire piece from quality steel, including the parts that do not really need it (such as the spine, tang, etc)