I got the dull razor blues...

When i first got in to all of this business with str8s i wasn't sure if it would pan out or not so I sorta cheaped out.Or so I thought.I went to the local beauty supply shop and bought a Personna Magic "straight" razor.It's just a little plastic scaled blade holder that holds one half of a DE blade.Learning how to shave with those sheet metal blades was interesting,nerve wracking and a little bloody at times.I became very close with my styptic pencil during these times.I almost named it but knew it's life would be short in my care so did not commit to a lasting relationship with it.Everything seemed to be going well and i was enjoying the new found skin health benefits of str8 shaving immediately.So I jumped in head first and bought a "shave ready" Dovo Best Quality razor in a very complete kit and commenced to stropping away.Very disappointing.The razor pulled and tugged and was very noisy as it cut my facial hair.The DE blades are so sharp that you never hear the hairs "breaking off",they just slice off nice and smooth without a fuss.I was chalking up my disappointment to bad technique and inexperience. Along this time I stumbled across a very nice looking W&B in an antique store for $15.I got it home,disinfected it,stropped it and shaved with it as is.No honing!It shaved considerably better than my "shave ready" Dovo I paid much more for.Not cool.Well,the W&B was doing good but I could still hear it struggling thru the hairs and never shaved as smooth as my disposable razor.Much less clumsy and a lot more fun/satisfying to shave with.But BBS just wasn't happening.So I sent it out for professional honing since my hone collection basically does not exist.That,plus I just wanted it right.When it came back home I was very pleased with it as it shaves much smoother and quieter than before,but I still cannot get BBS with it,or even close.Not even my sideburns will go completely smooth with it. So my question is this:can a straight razor,a real solid blade razor,not one that holds refills,actually be made as sharp as a DE blade?It is very annoying to own these two beautiful razors(the W&B and the Dovo)yet I use my $7 Personna Magic "blade holder"with Wilkinson Sword blades every night to touch up because i refuse to shave only to finish with 5 o'clock shadow.What am I missing here?

I'm not sure if a straight can ever be as sharp as an industrially produced blade, but certainly I get a daily shave from a straight, every bit as smooth as anything else I've used (DE, Cartridge). For me this does involve three passes, one of which is ATG.

This is something that I honestly didn't think would be possible when I first started shaving with a straight razor.

I have both real straights and a "Shavette." It is nice to know what sharp is from a new, half DE blade. However, I can get my straights as sharp or sharper than the "Feather" or "7-o-clock yellow" that performed best in my shavette. The straights will dull eventually and need to be touched up where the disposables just need to be replaced. I get better shaves from my straights.

Your lather, beard prep or lather could be at fault as well as the razor not being sharp enough.

But I've tried synthetic setups, a coticule and a Jnat (2 natural stones) and all give superb shaves.

Oh I do actually remember a post that mentioned why DE's feel sharper but are actually just easier to shave with because of the safety frame creating the optimum angle against your face, Lower the angle of the razor and don't try and remove all the stubble in the first pass.

regards Alex

Although a disposable blade is hard to match it can be done, I would bet the Dovo can go there I don't know if the W&B can but they are two different animals and the resulting shaves from either should be Close & COMFORTABLE!!! Note the emphasis on the comfortable :)

The real difference in the disposable edge and the SR edge is in the Coating -vs- the Stropping not in the initial sharpness which will be within microns..

The disposable relies on a coating (Teflon) to impart smoothness, a SR relies on your skill with the strop to burnish the blade to impart smoothness read AFDavis /Alan's thread on stroppping and watch his vid on the front page of the forum.. this is where you are missing (assuming the honing starts the edge right)
It is obvious that you like a Wicked Sharp edge if you send me the Dovo I will take it there on the Shaptons and strop it in for you so the first shave when it gets back to you will be as good as that razor can get.. After that shave if that works for you, then you can see how your stropping effects the edge..

PM me if you want to try this out I cover the honing you cover the shipping, I don't know where yer at in the world so if it ain't the US let me know, as I have a few friends on here that know how to hone across the world, and maybe we can get one of them to help out :)

Thank you very much for your offer Gssixgun,but i wouldn't expect you to hone anything for me for free.Just out of curiosity,why do you feel that a Dovo can rival ad DE edge,but a W$B probably can't.Blade thickness perhaps? Again,thank you for your offer,but I'll gladly pay for your services.PM sent.

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Originally Posted by justalex

Your lather, beard prep or lather could be at fault as well as the razor not being sharp enough.

But I've tried synthetic setups, a coticule and a Jnat (2 natural stones) and all give superb shaves.

Oh I do actually remember a post that mentioned why DE's feel sharper but are actually just easier to shave with because of the safety frame creating the optimum angle against your face, Lower the angle of the razor and don't try and remove all the stubble in the first pass.

regards Alex

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Thank you for your reply.Just to be clear on what I am using when I refer to a DE is this.I do not own an actual DE razor,but all of this straight business has me considering it.But to be away from disposable things was the first reason in using straights to begin with.Time will tell...
Attachment 88972

I would also recommend working on technique here. If the stropping is going well with 50-60 strokes before shaving, then the razor should be shaving well at a 30 degree or less angle. Most guys bend their wrist back when starting which you can get a way with on a disposable razor, but generally not on a real straight razor. They are definitely different animals.

Have fun.

Sorry for the mix up, I started with a cartridge razor as well, they shave differently though as Lynn says, a lower angle should improve your shaving :)

I hear alot of talk on here about the 30* angle,but that seems way too steep for me.I usually end up holding my razor with the spine just barely off of my skin.Probably only an 1/8" or less.At times the spine will even touch.At 30* it feels to me that the blade is just scraping across my face rather than slicing hairs off.I stropped the dickens out of the W&B and the Dovo tonight.100 passes on both sides of the strop on each razor.I was almost too tired to shave after that! First pass with the W&B wtg and then atg with the Dovo.Somewhat better,but i did end up touching up with the Personna in a few spots.Don't get me wrong,I am getting better shave with the str8s im complainig about than i ever did with a machlll.I suppose i am just overly picky sometimes

I had many of the same problems when I started just a few years back. Nowadays, I can get a smoother shave from my Dovo steel SR than with a disposable SR, though my double edge razor is slightly easier on one part of my face (immediately under my chin), but worse on others. I shave WITH the growth first, and then across (sideways). The problem area under my chin gets smooth after three sideways passes, but this feels uncomfortable if my blade is not perfectly stropped.

So, I found my biggest problems could be solved with stropping:

1. I have a fabric canvas strop. I use this before every shave (just five strokes). It is indispensable. I simply could not keep my blade sharp over several shaves without it.
3. Your main strop should be nice and smooth. I did not strop for long enough before, but more strokes is generally better (I never counted, maybe I should do that next time). I have a wide strop and a narrow one, but I actually prefer the latter, as the x-pattern seems to work better on that one. I finish with some very light strokes on the strop.
2. When the blade tugs too much and is getting dull: get a diamond paste for a separate sharpening strop OR (better if you ask me) use a very fine water stone, build up slurry, and apply a little of this slurry on the sharpening strop. It works even better than paste in my experience. I only use it now and then, but it is important to have when the blade is slightly dull, it can make the blade very very sharp. If the blade is getting seriously dull, hone the razor on the water stone first.

It took me a while to figure all this out, and I suppose that my stropping and shaving technique also got better, but now my relatively cheap black high-carbon steel Dovo can give an absolutely baby-smooth shave.

Good luck!

Thank you for the tips trondsi. I am sure i am lacking in stropping ability as a new guy.That,and my strop is probably not of the best quality.Mine does not have a canvas side.Both sides are leather,one is just coarser than the other.Pasting is something i have wondering about if i should try.Also,what exactly does it mean to build a slurry? Thank you

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Originally Posted by shinyribs

Thank you very much for your offer Gssixgun,but i wouldn't expect you to hone anything for me for free.Just out of curiosity,why do you feel that a Dovo can rival ad DE edge,but a W$B probably can't.Blade thickness perhaps? Again,thank you for your offer,but I'll gladly pay for your services.PM sent.

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GSSIXGUN is offering you a very precious gift!

If I were you my friend, I'd take him up on it! Please let him work his magic on his stones!!! His edges are well known, not only on some of my razors, but around the entire straight razor shaving world!!

At the very least, you will have found how far your razor can he honed and how it compares to a DE.

If you take him up on his offer, when you receive it, don't strop it, just give it a go!! You just might be in for a surprise!!

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Originally Posted by shinyribs

Thank you for the tips trondsi. I am sure i am lacking in stropping ability as a new guy.That,and my strop is probably not of the best quality.Mine does not have a canvas side.Both sides are leather,one is just coarser than the other.Pasting is something i have wondering about if i should try.Also,what exactly does it mean to build a slurry? Thank you

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You're welcome!
My best leather strop is small, and it was not terribly expensive. I think they tend to get better with time and use (unless you keep nicking it).

Getting a strop with some sort of canvas seems to be an absolute must to me. Maybe others have differing experiences but the improvement is obvious to me. I would suggest getting a strop with canvas, and using your old strop with diamond paste or slurry. I make slurry by rubbing my water stone with another smaller stone while both are very moist. It looks like muddy water. I then apply a very thin, almost invisible, layer of this slurry to my strop. I let it dry completely, and rub it a little with my thumb to even it out. I occasionally oil this strop to avoid drying it out.

Awesome! Thank you so much for the info.Yeah,i think a new strop is in order.Thanks again for your help

As another newbie, I'm sharing some of your difficulties. There are just so many factors that affect the final result, and I don't have the experience to know which ones I'm doing OK and which I'm doing wrong.

I'm just chipping in here to mention something else that could be a factor - lather and prep. My last couple of shaves were much better, and the main differences were that I spent more time on the prep, and made a different lather.

Firstly, I went from *strop - hot towel - lather - shave* to *hot towel - lather - strop - hot towel - lather - shave* so there was soap soaking into my face for a lot longer before the shave. Secondly, I made the lather a bit thinner - my first lathers I now think were too sticky, and by making wetter ones the gliding action of the razor seems better.

I think that's probably only 1¢, but there you are. HTH.

Matt,you got me to thinking and I believe you are spot on when it comes to the prep. When i shave with the DE blades I can only get one pass before they become noticeably dull.I suppose my facial hair must be fairly tough. I changed my prep and tried a different approach to stropping and had great results tonight. Probably one of the best shaves so far-if not the best. And I used the W&B tonight for all 3 passes-WTG,ATG and scythe. I even had much more success scything the hollows of my neck than before. It is almost impossible to scythe with those sheet metal DE blades,the harsh corners are just not forgiving. Scything is much easier (read: less scary) with a nice rounded heel on your razor. Just one more example where a n00b should never suspect a professionally honed razor as the culprit behind a bad shave. It is a good day today. Thank you for your post. It was a good cure to my tunnel vision!

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

GSSIXGUN is offering you a very precious gift!

If I were you my friend, I'd take him up on it! Please let him work his magic on his stones!!! His edges are well known, not only on some of my razors, but around the entire straight razor shaving world!!

At the very least, you will have found how far your razor can he honed and how it compares to a DE.

If you take him up on his offer, when you receive it, don't strop it, just give it a go!! You just might be in for a surprise!!

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I agree with you completely cudarunner. And though I am sure you are correct in taking GSSIXGUN up on his offer,I just wouldn't feel right about it. A man that has invested his money into acquiring all of the proper stones and equipment,and his time into learning how to use them correctly should be compensated for his time and effort. Not to mention now I am approached with honing loyalty. Should I get GSSIXGUN to hone my razor for being so kind,or remain loyal to the gentleman who did such a good job on my W&B? I know we are not talking about a lot of money here,but as a small business owner customer loyalty is paramount to me. Thank you again for your overly gracious offer GSSIXGUN, I imagine you may receive my Dovo in the near future. I need someone to fix what i probably messed up!

Nosy P.S.: cudarunner,would i be right in thinking that you have a 'Cuda? Between the words "cuda" & "runner" I was wondering if you drag race,too? Sorry for being nosy. Just always stoked to find a fellow racer!

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Originally Posted by shinyribs

I hear alot of talk on here about the 30* angle,but that seems way too steep for me.I usually end up holding my razor with the spine just barely off of my skin.Probably only an 1/8" or less.At times the spine will even touch.

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I'm a newbie, just under 4 months, but for me, when I am at the 30 degree angle and use VERY LITTLE pressure, I get the best shaves. I do reduce the angle when moving to XTG and ATG passes. With the full hollow blade (6/8 Fontana) the easy way to know if I'm in the sweet spot is when I hear the 'buttering toast' sound. It is different with my wedge (13/16 Sheffield), I don't get that feedback, but find I get the same results with a more shallow angle...just like Obie said.
I realize what works for one doesn't work for all, but you may find a steeper angle with less pressure giving you good results with extended mileage.