Please help razor ID

[vaga]

Can anyone identify this razor:




NON XLL would suggest Joseph Allen... but on the other side of the tang you'll see:



???

[sharptonn]

See those two guys dueling with swords? That would be E. Rich Friedrick and Joseph Allen in a match of swordplay over the "NON XLL" label. Joseph Allen won the match, slicing off Friedrick's ear. The rest is super hard steel history!
I swear it is the truth! Really it is!

[Neil Miller]

It could be an example of early copyright infringement. The only owners of the mark I know of were Joseph Allen and before them Unwin & Rodgers. Jukes Coulson - a London Ironmongers situated in Allhallows Lane, then Upper Thames Street and Rotherhithe also appropriated the NON-XLL mark - presumably to increase traffick as they made knives as well as steel and steel objects. Interestingly, Coulson's made parts for James Watts steam engine from Swedish iron ore!

There could be another reason though - Allen's manufactured razors for other companies with their mark on one side and the other companies marks on the other side. One such example is the american Robeson Cutlery Co.

Regards,
Neil

[JimmyHAD]

One more thing AFAIK ...... "non XL" may have been an attempt to cash in on the success of Wostenholme's "IXL" (I excel) . Then again, it may have been Wosty who was biting the non xl trademark ? Or I'm all wet and it was neither. Just a supposition on my part.

[sharptonn]

One more thing AFAIK ...... "non XL" may have been an attempt to cash in on the success of Wostenholme's "IXL" (I excel) . Then again, it may have been Wosty who was biting the non xl trademark ? Or I'm all wet and it was neither. Just a supposition on my part.

I always wondered what the meaning of "NON XLL" was? IXL seems pretty plain as advertising!

[Wullie]

I always wondered what the meaning of "NON XLL" was? IXL seems pretty plain as advertising!

None Excell I think is what it was supposed to convey.

[sharptonn]

None Excell I think is what it was supposed to convey.

I hear ya. I always say it means "not an IXL" Hard as a rock!

[vaga]

Thank you all, guys.

I liked especially Sharptonn's explanation .
The blade is not in a very bad condition. I'll try to restore it and then will show it again.

[Neil Miller]

It could be an example of early copyright infringement. The only owners of the mark I know of were Joseph Allen and before them Unwin & Rodgers. Jukes Coulson - a London Ironmongers situated in Allhallows Lane, then Upper Thames Street and Rotherhithe also appropriated the NON-XLL mark - presumably to increase traffick as they made knives as well as steel and steel objects. Interestingly, Coulson's made parts for James Watts steam engine from Swedish iron ore!

There could be another reason though - Allen's manufactured razors for other companies with their mark on one side and the other companies marks on the other side. One such example is the american Robeson Cutlery Co.

Regards,
Neil

I thought that I should qualify this after some thought. There was another owner of the NON-XLL mark - William Broadhurst & Son. So, the mark passed on like this:

William Broadhurst & Son (used the mark around 1845 when the son entered the business, maybe earlier as business began in 1833)
?
Unwin & Rodgers (bought the mark in 1860)
Joseph Allen & Sons Ltd (bought the mark from U&R in 1883)

The question mark concerns Jukes Coulson. In 1855 William and his son went bankrupt, but was revived as William Broadhurst (no '& Son') and begain again in 1860. William died in 1864. Jukes Coulson's business started in London in the 1760s -he made anchors and was an ironsmith. After his death (c 1800) another Jukes Coulson took over and an ironworks was built. By 1850 they were in Birmingham and in 1856 they opened an office in Sheffield. Sometime between this date and the 1860s an established figure in Sheffield acted as an agent for them - a certain William Broadhurst! So it may be just hearsay that Jukes Coulson appropriated the NON-XLL mark as he may well have had his product (steel) endorsed by William Broadhurst.

When William Broadhurst died one son - Marshall - became export manager for Jukes Coulson.

A lengthy aside, I know, but worth putting the record straight IMO.

Regards,
Neil

[vaga]

Thank you, Neil.

I do admire your knowledge.