Smiling Razor Re-Grind

Okay, this may be a stupid question but I have a few straights that have smiling blades and I have been trying for months to acquire the technique in order to hone these blades and have acquired nothing but frustration. At this point I have given up trying to hone these as the only thing I have done is make them duller. My question is that I was wondering if there is a way that the razor can be put to the grinder and sorta re-shaped in order to make it so that the whole blade contacts the stone at the same time.

Generally a bad idea. Most razors with a smiling edge were either made that way, or honed that way. I would recommend to learn to hone them as the spine follows the edge during honing and the spine is set to following a smiling edge. Many new shavers are wanting to do this. I recommend to buy a "straight" and sell the smilers or put them away until you learn how to hone and strop them. Smiling edges are that way for good reason. They shave Awesome when sharp!
OR, you could just send them to me! :rolleyes:

Believe me I have been trying like heck to get the hang of honing a smile. I have a few straight Blades and can hone them up real nice so I have the ability to bring a razor to shave readiness but these smilers are driving me nuts and I really hate to sell them as they are in Scales that I hand carved.

You don't need to regrind a smiling blade to get it honed, you just have to put it diagonally on the hone and make X-strokes. See here: Honing A Smiling Straight Razor Blade - YouTube
You can also do it holding the razor with one hand only, if you have the necessary sensibility. I suggest to use a water hone, since the slurry indicates the point of the blade that is in touch with the hone.

But if you still want to make a smiling blade straight, you can use this technique: Removing a chip from a straight razor, Part 1 - YouTube but your hand must be very firm and stabile.

There is another possibility, unfortunately: if after you do everything right the blade doesn't keep sharp, the temper might be ruined, making the blade useless.

I am hip. Just display them until you learn. I did! I recommend learning a rocking/rolling X stroke. Once you learn, it is simple as can be. Look in the Wiki (library) on the subject. Gotta be something there?

bluegrod, Can we see your smile blades? If it's not a problem for you.
Because some blades became smiling after many years of using and honing. And possibly, there're some variants to make them straight.
But some blades can't be changed ...they were born with smile.:)
Like this:

http://www.strazors.com/uploads/gallery/frodxin_1.jpg

Beauty Alex. Some of the best razors have smiles. Stick with the honing and it will pay off in the long run. Here's a couple more smiles.

http://i.imgur.com/x8ktH.jpg

We Love smiles:)))
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...cone/kmusk.jpg

Indeed we do!

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Originally Posted by bluegrod

... these smilers are driving me nuts ...

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We hear ya. Lots of people think they can professionally hone razors because they can hone the easy, straight ones to some shave ready standard. Those of us that have many a razors of all types know that there is more to it than that. When I was learning to code for PC's someone told me that I needed to have lots of problems and work through them before I could be considered good at coding. I found this to be true. Here are some pics of a true wedge smile I had the fortune to hone a while ago. I am including the before and after pictures to give some perspective to my saying that it was easier to refinish the blade and re-scale than to home this PITA but now that it is sharp I wouldn't trade it for any other razor.

Don't put your smiling razors to power tools! Save them and learn to hone them or sell them.

Almost all my blades have smiles. They seem to shave better, and I find them actually easier to hone. Just follow the blade profile on the stone, which generally means a rolling stroke. Once you get accustomed to it, it's actually easier than honing a straight blade and less demanding on your skills.

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Originally Posted by ace

Almost all my blades have smiles. They seem to shave better, and I find them actually easier to hone. Just follow the blade profile on the stone, which generally means a rolling stroke. Once you get accustomed to it, it's actually easier than honing a straight blade and less demanding on your skills.

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Agreed! I am truly disposed to honing all razors "towards a smile" to some degree ! :D

What helped me a lot when learning how to hone a smiling razor was using a magic marker along the edge. I "painted" the bevel with the marker and then I could see how my stroke on the hone was actually affecting the edge. I was doing okay on the stroke going away from me but on the return stroke I was only hitting the middle and toe and not coming anywhere near the heel.

As soon as I started getting frustrated with my poor results I wiped it off, oiled it, and then walked away for a few days. There was no point in getting mad and not enjoying what I was doing.

In the end when everything finally clicked I thought to myself, "huh, that was easy". It really was, but I just had to have the patience to accept I had to put in the work in order to get the results that I wanted.

So while things can be done to "straighten" the edge, it might be better to keep at it and revel in the fact that when everything falls into place for you, the shave will be that much better.

For a razor to be a "straight" that doesn't mean the edge has to be precisely straight, nor that straightness is a goal to achieve with honing. I have only two blades that are actually "straight", and I find them the most difficult to shave with and to hone. A "straight" edge profile is as close as you can get to a frown without having one. With a smiling blade, you can actually do 'scything' strokes more easily because the blade is easier to 'roll'. But that's just me.

yeah, I have tried all the trcks listed here with the sharpie on the edge and the rolling x-stroke. The rolling part is what I seem to have the most trouble with. I also agree that I have gotten my best shaves from my razors that have a smile and I have sent them out in the past to be re-ground and when they came back they were scary sharp but due to the coarseness of my facial hair it wasnt long before they needed some attention and so I took them to the hones and made them even duller and now the more I try and hone them the closer they are getting to butterknife status. That is the most frustrating part is that I love these razors and can not use them.

OK. If I may, It sounds as if you need to start over. Get them honed again and learn how to properly strop them. It is imperitive that they be stropped in the same "rolling X" pattern" as they are honed (except spine first !) to ensure that the entire edge is evenly stropped. If they are stiffer grinds, (as smilers more often are) they will need liberal, proper stropping. A hundred or two stropping strokes! Otherwise, the edge will rapidly deteriorate. Like I said, save them until the skills come along! JMHO!

Now one of the techniques I have not tried is the narrow hone and was wondering if there is any benefit to using a narrow hone. I do not use stones but rather dmt plates and aluminum oxide lapping film on glass plate and was wondering what micron alumox film would be used in order to set the bevel. In response to the above comment about using a rolling x-stroke while stropping I am curious, wouldnt that tend to allow the blade to dig into the edge of the strop. Also, there may be some confusion about my honing ability. I do real well and can hone a straight blade to a very keen edge its just these smiling blades that are giving me fits and I know everyone is saying just keep trying but I am worried about over honing the blades.

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Originally Posted by sharptonn

It is imperitive that they be stropped in the same "rolling X" pattern" as they are honed (except spine first !) to ensure that the entire edge is evenly stropped.

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I am learning to hone and shave with smiling razors, too. Is the "rolling" action neccessary during stropping? I know the X stroke is needed, but I thought the slight bend in the strop at the edge took care of the need for the "rolling". I could be making incorrect assumptions here (like I always use a hanging strop).

Ahhhhhhh! The plot thickens! Save em! Good luck! :chop:

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Originally Posted by DFriedl

I am learning to hone and shave with smiling razors, too. Is the "rolling" action neccessary during stropping? I know the X stroke is needed, but I thought the slight bend in the strop at the edge took care of the need for the "rolling". I could be making incorrect assumptions here (like I always use a hanging strop).

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Yes, just roll the spine to keep the edge evenly in contact with the stropping surface. As one would in honing one. If you do not, you will "cup" your strop, making it less effective for more straight bevels. JMHO.

use the magic marker test and practice on your finest hone.. it will still remove the marker, and you wont wear out your blade.

if once you figure you've got the rolling stroke down but the very edge still has marker on it then likely the bevel still isnt set in those places, and you will need to go to your coarse hones. at that point you can decide whether you want to tape the spine or not.

when i'm stropping a smiling blade sometimes i do a bit of a x-stroke rolling stroke that really only uses the near side of the strop
like wise you can focus on a rolling stroke that uses the near edge of the stone if that helps, treating it like a narrow hone.
having a really narrow hone can make sure that you get contact along the whole edge, but its not necessary, and you wont really develop the skill of the rolling stroke. my narrowest hones are about 10mm wide, and they are kinda nice for warped blades.. i know folks say a warped blade on a wide hone can be just the same, but i dont want to automatically wear the toe down on one side because its always in contact with the hone. that sort of thing isnt an issue with a smilling blade. wide hones are fine, and you can do exactly the same thing with them as a narrow hone, but it requires an intentional rolling stroke.

and once you develop the rolling stroke you will probably find it makes sense to use it on all your blades, smiling or not.


(i just recalled you said you've had them professionaly honed, so the bevel shouldn't be an issue.. maybe find out if they were done with tape or not, that could be important)

I've never used the rolling stroke on smiling blades while stropping. I think I can get away without doing this because I tend to be a heavy stropper, both in pressure and number of strokes. It has been a long time since I did fewer than 100 laps and almost always more.

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Originally Posted by bluegrod

Now one of the techniques I have not tried is the narrow hone and was wondering if there is any benefit to using a narrow hone. I do not use stones but rather dmt plates and aluminum oxide lapping film on glass plate and was wondering what micron alumox film would be used in order to set the bevel. In response to the above comment about using a rolling x-stroke while stropping I am curious, wouldnt that tend to allow the blade to dig into the edge of the strop. Also, there may be some confusion about my honing ability. I do real well and can hone a straight blade to a very keen edge its just these smiling blades that are giving me fits and I know everyone is saying just keep trying but I am worried about over honing the blades.

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I feel using this to attempt a honing session has destroyed your bevels. I just don't think it will ever work. JMHO. I suggest getting them going again professionally and investing in a barbers hone . Just Me! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ace

I've never used the rolling stroke on smiling blades while stropping. I think I can get away without doing this because I tend to be a heavy stropper, both in pressure and number of strokes. It has been a long time since I did fewer than 100 laps and almost always more.

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do you use an x stroke, or does your leather flex to fit the curve of the blade?