Why is this razor magic?

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Why does this rather ordinary Wester Bros. "Extra Hollow Ground" shave so well?

It will take off whiskers which I can only cleanly shave with other razors(with difficulty) ATG.

It is a much sharper than other hollows and it hones more easily and holds an edge longer.

This Wester Bros. is a world apart from two different Filarmonicas tried. It is sharper than the Henckels I have worked on.

A small short Genco which is a swayback smiler has been the easiest razor for me to ATG but this Wester Bros. gets closer.

Torreys have been a favorite of mine but the best of them won't get this sharp and Torreys don't seem to hold their edge well.

Wester Bros. imported cutlery and razors from Germany and Wester Bros. knives take and hold a very fine edge.

Does anyone else get similar results?

You found your first "Whoa" razor

Certain razors you will come across will make you stop and say "Whoa, that was smooth" as to a Brand or Steel or Grind there is no real way of knowing..
Myself and others have chased them, but some individual razors are just a touch better..
One thing I can tell you is the more razors you hone and shave the more the definition of a "Whoa" razor changes :p


I have a Wester Bros De-Fi that I love

Maybe it’s the bamboo? :D

I have a Wester brothers anchor brand that I feel the same way about. It's just a great razor.

No, they are terrible. Don't buy any,especially the Manganese Steel. :p More of them for me! :D

jaswarb:
That is one handsome razor -- I love the scales! If it truly shaves that well, perhaps you should name it "The Lightsaber."
Maybe those old guys just really knew their craft.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

No, they are terrible. Don't buy any,especially the Manganese Steel. :p More of them for me! :D

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Selfish much? :)

Sounds like my experience with an 8/8 Wade & Butcher I picked up that was dull, dull, dull. I didn't know what to expect. I still can't believe how quickly and easily the bevel was set on a 4k stone, then sharpened and polished with a progression up to a 12K Naniwa. You can see a pic of it in the show and tell forum, titled "My Gnarly 8/8 Wade & Butcher." It's still an incredible shaver that I use every third day. No need for a touch up yet. Yes, it's fun and makes for a good feeling. Great looking razor, BTW.

The razor I have that matches your tale is an unassuming Jung #80, 5/8 hollow ground. It was the first razor I was able to get 'shave ready'. Still out shaves my Ducks, my Blackie and my Henckles. don't know what it is about that blade.... so I bought 2 of em. :D

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Originally Posted by jaswarb

Why does this rather ordinary Wester Bros. "Extra Hollow Ground" shave so well?

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I have a few Wester Bros. razors and they are all good shavers and easier to hone than some. Most all my razors are good shavers but some weren't always that way. As my honing skills improved I found that putting the ones that were a lesser shave quality back on the hones improved the shaves a lot. Some didn't but putting them on different hones dialed them into my standards of a quality shave. It seems like some razors can be honed by a monkey (a metaphor) while others give the experts a challenge. A good way to improve our honing skills is to attend straight razor meets, watch others hone some razors, try different hones and possibly have someone else have at one or two of your lesser quality shavers. Don't give up on the razors that don't meet the grade unless you are settled in on your honing style and your hones.

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Originally Posted by Joed

I have a few Wester Bros. razors and they are all good shavers and easier to hone than some. Most all my razors are good shavers but some weren't always that way. As my honing skills improved I found that putting the ones that were a lesser shave quality back on the hones improved the shaves a lot. Some didn't but putting them on different hones dialed them into my standards of a quality shave. It seems like some razors can be honed by a monkey (a metaphor) while others give the experts a challenge. A good way to improve our honing skills is to attend straight razor meets, watch others hone some razors, try different hones and possibly have someone else have at one or two of your lesser quality shavers. Don't give up on the razors that don't meet the grade unless you are settled in on your honing style and your hones.

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From your experience could you draw any general conclusions about "parings" of certain steels/grinds with various types of hones, if such a thing exists?
I have read more than a few times of how members (for example) had success with a certain problem razor from changing from a barbers hone to a coticule or vise versa.
This is straying into the higher levels of understanding that only comes with many, many hours of use and refinement with various hone and razor combinations.
I don´t know to what degree these "parings" depend on the particular honemeister or not, but this question wont go away.
I am sure many would appreciate your insights into this, especially me :D

one of my first razors, and the first razor i ever honed was a somewhat beat up EA berg in ivory. This EA berg seems no different than any swedish razor, but it shaves closer than any razor i've touched. I can shave with my EA berg fast and sloppy and get a cleaner shave with less irritation in one pass than with any other razor in 2-3 passes.

Some RAzors defy logic, and hype, you don't sell those razors you make them the standard by which you judge everything else.




p.s. NOTHING has come close to my standard yet, regardless of continent or time period. I also now have an obsession with eric antonberg's

I have just recently come across a "Whoa!" razor as well. For me it was a very inexpensive eBay razor that I believed I was just going to clean up and re-sell. Its a Crown & Sword American razor. I went to Maxi to learn to hone and he suggested to have a go at this one. It's my best shaver yet. Even my wife commented that it was an amazing shave.

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Originally Posted by bonitomio

From your experience could you draw any general conclusions about "parings" of certain steels/grinds with various types of hones, if such a thing exists?
I have read more than a few times of how members (for example) had success with a certain problem razor from changing from a barbers hone to a coticule or vise versa.
This is straying into the higher levels of understanding that only comes with many, many hours of use and refinement with various hone and razor combinations.
I don´t know to what degree these "parings" depend on the particular honemeister or not, but this question wont go away.
I am sure many would appreciate your insights into this, especially me :D

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I have found that the hardness of the steel, even between razors from the same manufacturer varies, some more than others. In general if the razor is creating slurry while honing the binder in the hone is too soft for the steel in the razor. If the hone is building up a black residue that can't be wiped off easily or the hone produces a high pitch sound the binder in the hone is too tough to release the worn grit w/ pressure from the steel. The principle is that the hone should hold onto the grit while the grit is sharp and release it when the grit gets dull. The other part is how hard is the grit.

This is a very advanced concept and it doesn't mean that the hone you/we are using isn't sufficient to sharpen the blade. I have an extensive background as a Tool and Die Maker and have ground a lot of metals in this trade. Some extra reading that may be interesting would be to research grinding wheels for surface grinders. for starters they come in different grit sizes, different grit hardness and different binder toughness to grind different steels. These concepts can be transferred to hones and honing but I/we do not know all of the specific characteristics of the steel or hones we are using in honing our vintage razors. I would suggest observing all that is happening while honing with all of your senses, work whithin your means and budget and most of all, to have fun.

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Originally Posted by Joed

I have found that the hardness of the steel, even between razors from the same manufacturer varies, some more than others. In general if the razor is creating slurry while honing the binder in the hone is too soft for the steel in the razor. If the hone is building up a black residue that can't be wiped off easily or the hone produces a high pitch sound the binder in the hone is too tough to release the worn grit w/ pressure from the steel. The principle is that the hone should hold onto the grit while the grit is sharp and release it when the grit gets dull. The other part is how hard is the grit.

This is a very advanced concept and it doesn't mean that the hone you/we are using isn't sufficient to sharpen the blade. I have an extensive background as a Tool and Die Maker and have ground a lot of metals in this trade. Some extra reading that may be interesting would be to research grinding wheels for surface grinders. for starters they come in different grit sizes, different grit hardness and different binder toughness to grind different steels. These concepts can be transferred to hones and honing but I/we do not know all of the specific characteristics of the steel or hones we are using in honing our vintage razors. I would suggest observing all that is happening while honing with all of your senses, work whithin your means and budget and most of all, to have fun.

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JOE THIS IS GOLD !!!
Thank you so so much for answering this question so well. I obviously asked the right person, especially considering I didn`t know your background in the metal industry.
Makes perfect sense to me, and having this perspective will help me now and in the future when tackling problem razor/hone combinations.
Please consider making a sticky of this or adding it to the honing database for all of us.
Fantastic :tu: :tu: :tu:

Hence why we say "Joe Knows"

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Originally Posted by bonitomio

JOE THIS IS GOLD !!!
Thank you so so much for answering this question so well. I obviously asked the right person, especially considering I didn`t know your background in the metal industry.
Makes perfect sense to me, and having this perspective will help me now and in the future when tackling problem razor/hone combinations.
Please consider making a sticky of this or adding it to the honing database for all of us.
Fantastic :tu: :tu: :tu:

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bonitomio, that may just be the best "Thank you" I've EVER read!

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Originally Posted by bonitomio

JOE THIS IS GOLD !!!
Thank you so so much for answering this question so well. I obviously asked the right person, especially considering I didn`t know your background in the metal industry.
Makes perfect sense to me, and having this perspective will help me now and in the future when tackling problem razor/hone combinations.
Please consider making a sticky of this or adding it to the honing database for all of us.
Fantastic :tu: :tu: :tu:

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Thank you. If the Mod team decides to make this a sticky I have no objections but I will not do so on my own.

To all reading this thread, What I am describing is not required to hone a razor and some may consider this "Over the top". For about 90% of the razors I hone, which ever hone I use can produce a good edge. I really don't want anyone to think they need to purchase multiple hones of different manufacturers to get into honing razors and getting good edges. Honing techniques may be able to overcome some of a particular hones limitations with a specific razor. I worked on many a machine shops that didn't have a large selection of grinding wheels and we made do with what we had on hand. On a rare occasion we did have to purchase a specific wheel because our techniques were not able to compensate for limitations of our wheel inventory. Grinding copper and aluminum comes to mind. To grind these materials we needed a softer grit, weaker bond, porous structure and a release agent like wax to get the job done. To all of our honing members reading this: Work within your budget and learn different techniques before searching for different hones. Go to or organize straight razor meets and see/use other members equipment/hones and learn their techniques. While I do have several types of hones I don't have many that are or were popular on SRP over the years. Remember that tools do not a craftsman make. A true craftsman can work with their tools on hand. Good tools in the hands of a true craftsman are a time saver. Balancing the money on tools with the skills of the craftsman is good business sense. We can all enjoy honing razors and obtain quality edges w/o purchasing every hone known to be used on straight razors. Learn to hone razors and get good edges on the hones on hand and then, if your budget and interest allows, experiment with other hones. I started out w/ Norton hones up to 8k and obtained good edges for over a year before I purchased finer hones and then other brands. I am all for low cost, quality gear to get me to shaving nirvana. Local finds of Escher and Coticule hones didn't hurt. Enjoy the sport and don't break the bank or reduce your quality of like in other areas.