Need help with ID on the straight razor. There is no name only I-BARBER AND SILVER STEEL. Would this razor be for late 1800's?
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Need help with ID on the straight razor. There is no name only I-BARBER AND SILVER STEEL. Would this razor be for late 1800's?
Attachment 99767Attachment 99768
Isaac Barber, 38 Meadow Street, Sheffield.
It's a period copy of a John Barber razor, or at least according to the John Barber ad in this thread.
My guess is that it was made between the late 1820's and the late 1830's. Much, much later the Joseph Elliot company bought the I. Barber trademark, but this razor long predates that.
I suspected john barber as well :-)
Are these very desirable razors?
Providing they're in good shape, I haven't found any razors from the 1800-1840 period to NOT be at least somewhat desirable.Quote:
Originally Posted by bokerblade
http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...er-please.html
Uppppsss .... Sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmonster
Didn't see.:)
I was being too sneaky with my link. :) No worries!Quote:
Originally Posted by manah
A little chronology:
1797 - Isaac & Thomas Barber, pocket knife cutlers listed in Robinsons Directory of the same year
1802 - John Barber apprenticed to razor maker (John Fell)
1822 - Isaac Barber, pen-knife maker, Eyre Street, listed by Baines Gazeteer of that year
1823 - John Barber acquires his Freedom, becomes razor and razor strop maker at 29 South Street
1828 - John Barber moves to Norfolk Street
1834 - John Barber dies - company continues as 'John Barber & Son'
1839 - John Barber and Sons advert warns that razors marked @I.Barber' are 'inferior copies'
1845 - Isaac is joined by James Barber to form I & J Barber
1847 - John Barber's 'Old English' razor production taken over by Stephen Martin
1852 - Stephen Martin listed as 'late John Barber) and Old English Razor and strop maker, 29 Norfolk Street and 19 Sycamore Street
1854 - Isaac dies
1859 - James dies
1864 - John A. W. Barber (John Barber's grandson) announces that he will be making razors in West Street at the Portland Works
1868 - the old John Barber marks are seen once again in the Sheffield Directory of that year
1869 - John A W Barber takes William Jackson to court for trademark infringement (both used a masonic compass and square) - loses case
1870s - the enterprise being unsuccessful, the John Barber story finishes once and for all.
1871 - Harriet Barber, widow of James, listed as director of I & J Barber
1893 - Harriet defends the companies marks in court
1897 - Harriet dies
1900 - 1928 - I & J Barber are at the ERA works, Sheffield
1928 - I & J Barber marks are acquired by Joseph Elliot
My question is, why would a razor maker (John Barber) operating at around the same time as another razor maker (Isaac Barber) use the 'I. Barber' mark on his razors? Perhaps he was a kindly soul who wanted to drum-up trade for his competitor? No, I think not. John Barber had his own corporate marks which he seems to have used freely. He became famous for the original 'Old English' brand and his company described itself as 'successors to George Shepherd' and used his 'Wolf' mark as well as their own compass and square.
Isaac Barber is described as a pen-knife maker in the old directories, but it is well known that pen-, spring- and pocket-knife makers also made razors - both skills involve the formation of the blade, its heat treatment and tempering and mounting in scales, besides, making folding knives is a far more complex process than making folding razors. That the company of Isaac and James Barber made razors is undisputed - they were granted the ERA corporate mark among others.
The only reason I can see that would explain 'I. Barber' meaning 'John Barber' is if you adopt the roman alphabet, which has no letter 'J' and which uses an 'I' instead, but this seems a bit far-fetched, especially when we consider that John Barber had his own corporate mark. In 1839 they placed an advertisement in trade journals, at the bottom of which is this:
Attachment 99790
So even at that early date there seems to have been no confusion - John Barber and Son categorically deny that they made razors marked 'I. Barber'.
I suspect that this particular myth is the result of some historian not doing enough research. If John Barber did use 'I. Barber' on his razors than it will be recorded in writing somewhere in the Sheffield Cutlery Registry of Trademarks and I for one would like to see hard evidence of it, otherwise it only makes sense - to me, at least - that John Barber made J. Barber razors and Isaac Barber made I. Barber razors.
Regards,
Neil
I hope I wasn't giving the impression that John Barber made the I. Barber razors, because the conclusion I'd come to is exactly the one you did (though with far less data. :) )Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
I did not know that John Barber was the originator of the Old English razors, that explains some things.
Thought IŽd throw a pic up just for some completion :P
Excuse the pitting - its just as I received it.
Goodness me, no! I didn't have you in mind at all, just several others that have propound this mistake and other erroneous threads on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Voidmonster
Regards,
Neil
Gentlemen,
I've analyzed some forum threads, my books and online info, and got the following result:
I believe, the confusion began since well-known book "Goins' Encyclopedia". The mistake is on page 15.
I've found many inaccuracies in this book before.
Isaac Barber, James Barber, John Barber are different people.:)
Isaac Barber was Isaac Barber with trademark "I.Barber" and died in 1854, aged 66.
James Barber died in 1859, aged 40.
By 1845, Isaac and James Barber were making spring knives in Broad Lane.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/attac...e-barber_1.jpg
John Barber died in 1834, aged 52.
http://manah.strazors.com/john_barber_logo_2.jpg
P.S. And don't forget about Edward Barber, who was a pen and pocket knife cutler in Scotland Street and then Rockingham Street. He died on 30 April 1834, aged 58.
So today I was trying to dig up information on I. P. Cutts razors and I came across this neat old Walking Tour of Sheffield(circa 1874), narrated by a handful of esteemed gentlemen, talking about the Good Old Days.
There's quite a lot about cutlery and razors, of course. But I found this bit about one Mr. Barber, cutler. None of the Barber cutlers I'm familiar with quite match the description I'm including, but the anecdote is so rich and fun I just had to share. I repeat, this is probably not referencing either James Barber or Isaac Barber. I think it's worth sharing all the same.
Quote:
WRAGG : Talking of apprentices, there was a man in Allen street who had sixteen. He was a cutler of the name of Barber, and he belonged to the property opposite Radford street. Oat-cake was then the constant fare, and people with apprentices always had a batch beforehand, that the lads might eat less. It is not therefore, specially surprising, that when they had an opportunity they snatched a cake from the bakestone. One lad was known to put an oat-cake in a coal basket, with ' the coal over it, while another concealed one under his shirt, and though instantly missed it was devoured before recovery was possible. On one occasion they had brewis or brewes for dinner. One of the lads, thought to be somewhat deficient in intellect, was seen to be pulling off his jacket. When asked what he was going to do he replied, " I'm going to jump into the pancheon to fetch that big piece of cake out on the other side." Barber, with all his parsimony, died in the Workhouse.
LEONARD: What is brewis ?
WRAGG: Oat-cakes, mixed with dripping and hot water poured on, seasoned with salt and pepper.
EVERARD: It is the traditional dish when the Cutlers' Company lunch together before the annual swearing in of the Master Cutler. It is an old Saxon dish. In " Gareth and Lynette" we read: " He had not beef and brewis enow."
Another thing that just came to mind is that for a long time there were great inconsistencies in spelling. Both I and J could signify J. I remeber seeing a razor on Ebay by 'Iohn Marsh'.
