How old might this 'Joseph Elliots' razor be?

A few years ago I bought a 'Joseph Elliots' razor at an antique store. As it was not even close to shave ready it sat in a drawer till now. I recently bought a set of stones and began learning how to hone and now this razor is my best shaver. I'm wondering how old it is? On the tang is says 'Joseph Elliots Best S...', the rest is worn off. On the blade is says 'The Celebrated Hollow Ground Razor For Barbers' Use'. It looks to be a 1/4 hollow ground. I'm not sure what the scales are made of, horn perhaps? I'm attaching an image of the razor. If anyone could tell me about how old this might be I would appreciate it.

I also see that etching on a lot of blades although they are not 'Joseph Elliot' razors. Was that a relatively common etching for manufacturers to put on their blades? I believe that I've seen it on Wade & Butcher razors.


Attachment 99773

If it has an "England" stamp it is post 1890. Otherwise this is all I have


ELLIOT, JOSEPH
Sheffield
Trademark: C reversed and C, with cross between
1821-1854 ("More Old Razors" by Lummus. Antiques, May 1927
p.372-374)

JOSEPH ELLIOTT (ELIOT) & SONS
Hollis Croft, Sheffield
ca. 1795 to present

This 'More Old Razors', is this a book, article, or what? If it has valuable information on razors I would be happy to purchase a copy. Do you have any information on it?

Judge Henry Lummus wrote two articles for an antique magazine in the 1920s in which he gives a lot of good information and details about dating early razors. The articles have been referenced several times in the forums including this posting.

Regards - Walt

GIYF :)

http://www.anwealde.com/razors/bothlummus.pdf
Straight Razor Manufacturers and Dates of Operation

Thank you that was very useful.

The history of Joseph Elliot & Sons (Sheffield) Ltd.

Thanks much for the resources, Oz and Manah! Oz, I noticed that in the "Old Sheffield Razors" article, Lummus states that "Certain blades are almost invariably worthless,...such as those made by Frederick Reynolds." Huh, and here I thought that, when I got my 1st Sheffield recently, a beautiful FR referenced in this threadhttp://straightrazorpalace.com/aucti...-reynolds.html, that it was an esteemed old Sheffield maker. To my limited knowledge, it seems like a quality, finely-crafted blade also loved by many people on SRP. Who knew they were junk? Oh, well, I like mine.

Sorry for the hijack, Spinsheet. I love that The Celebrated. The more I learn about these old razors, the more fascinated I become.

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

... I noticed that in the "Old Sheffield Razors" article, Lummus states that "Certain blades are almost invariably worthless,...such as those made by Frederick Reynolds." ... Who knew they were junk? Oh, well, I like mine.

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I have several Frederick Reynolds razors and I wouldn't call them junk. In general they do appear to be made of a harder steel which makes them difficult to hone for most people. A semi wedge blade made of hard steel and a smiling edge compounds the honing issues. All of the Frederick Reynolds razors I have are great shavers and hold an edge very well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

I noticed that in the "Old Sheffield Razors" article, Lummus states that "Certain blades are almost invariably worthless,...such as those made by Frederick Reynolds."

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I think you'll find Lummus is coming from a collectors perspective rather than a user's. I have no idea what makes something collectable or not but remember that some collectors even just collect for the scales & the blade is secondary. Many don't even shave with one.
Gotta agree with Joe. Reynolds razors are a good thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joed

I have several Frederick Reynolds razors and I wouldn't call them junk. In general they do appear to be made of a harder steel which makes them difficult to hone for most people. A semi wedge blade made of hard steel and a smiling edge compounds the honing issues. All of the Frederick Reynolds razors I have are great shavers and hold an edge very well.

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Joed-It seems like everything is subjective with str8's. The Reynolds I have is so soft that even a few ultralight circles on my Norton 4/8 takes the edge very close to shave-ready. If I try to push the edge the least bit too far, much less than my others, I lose it and have to start again. The least little bit of rolling-x strokes, and poof, edge gone. Very strange, and probably just my inexperience. Still, I managed to put a pretty wicked edge on it with about 25 whisper-light strokes on a lathered dragon's tongue, and 10 on CrOx linen.
You do what it takes.

It sounds like the razor did not get hardened or that it was restored and softened during the process by overheating. My guess would be that the heat treatment was lost during a restoration attempt because it happens a lot by people that are unaware or inexperienced. How long does this razor hold an edge? I have also found that the hardness of razors varies even from the same manufacturer but this one sounds like it is dead soft steel.