Joseph Rodgers & Sons - A query

Hi
Slightly catching the bug here, I've just purchased my 2nd vintage SR, the first being a John Heiffor with ivory scales and a lovely restored Wade & Butcher. I came across the manufacturer Joseph Rodgers & Sons. For now, i'm interested in vintage English razors as I come from the UK. I was wanting to know if the
below logo appears on any of their razors? I'm particulary interested in the VR (Queen Victoria) cypher and the words 'cutlers to her majesty' as well as the Maltese Cross (used to cancel the very first postage stamps 1d penny blacks). Seeing several on eBay they all say 'cutlers to their majesties'. After reading some more info online I learnt that the monarchs they covered were GIVR, WIVR, VR, EVIIR and GVR all of which had royal warrants for their cutlery. I would also like to know if anyone knows of any other razors which contain Royal Insignia on them, especially VR. Thanks
Attachment 104075

I don't think I have any with the V- regent symbol now but I've had them come and go. They pop up on the bay from time to time and members here have them. I also think I've seen ... maybe had 'Cutlers to Her Majesty. Check out 'The Jolly Rodgers' razor club here . Something may very well be in there. Also manah has a big PDF article on Rodgers history on his website.

http://www.strazors.com/uploads/images/rodgers.pdf

Rodgers marks circa 1919:

Attachment 104078Attachment 104079Attachment 104080Attachment 104081

There are a lot of others that had Royal Warrants - that's what you have to have to be able to display that insignia. Plus many, many others from the same era that did not have a Royal Warrant, so couldn't display the mark - Victoria reigned an awful long time, and most of the well-known makers fall into that time-frame.

Regards,
Neil

Oddly, I don't see that many Rodgers blades with the crown mark, and fewer still with 'Her Majesty'. Many, many of them say 'Cutlers to Their Majesties', which I've always taken as A) Victorian and B) a degree of chauvinism on the part of the Rodgers company.

I have an incomplete box set where the stamped logo on the outside says 'Cutlers to Her Majesty' and the blades that came with it are stamped 'Their Majesties'. I also have an ivory handled desk knife with the 'Her Majesty' stamp, possibly simply due to size constraint as the tang is very small.

All but the very oldest of my Rodgers blades have the star and cross.

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where the stamped logo on the outside says 'Cutlers to Her Majesty' and the blades that came with it are stamped 'Their Majesties'

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http://www.strazors.com/uploads/gall...rs_set_311.jpg
http://www.strazors.com/uploads/imag...ers_set_4b.jpg

Thanks for all this info. It is useful to know that there are indeed some that do say 'to her majesty' and not their majesties. During Queen Victoria's reign there was only one HM as Prince Albert was only ever an HRH. Looking at the info on Manah's pdf file, I'd say their majesties was to emphasise they had had several Royal Warrants. Queen Victoria would have been the 3rd, with George IV and William IV preceding her. I will be keen to find one with 'to her majesty' and / or the Royal cipher. Thanks everybody who has replied.

During last seven years, I've never seen razor(!) blade with stamp "Cutlers to Her Majesty".
...even in catalogs.

Thanks Alex, that is interesting info and what a beautiful set. It makes sense that they would use the "their majesties" stamp even when it was only Queen Victoria. People in those days never thought that a century or two later people would be collecting these things. If they only knew.

Alex this stub tail Rodgers Cast Steel ..... do you 'know' whether it is a Joseph Rodgers ? IIRC there were other Rodgers making razors that early.

Attachment 104129

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Originally Posted by manah

http://www.strazors.com/uploads/gall...rs_set_311.jpg
http://www.strazors.com/uploads/imag...ers_set_4b.jpg

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Wow, I love that set. The box I have with 'Cutlers to Her Majesty' is a good deal later than that one. I'm guessing near the end of Victoria's reign. I don't have pictures of it at the moment, and can't easily get them today, but I'll post later.

I think we've compared your 7 day set to the older one I've got, but it has no markings on the box.

And come to think of it, I've never seen a razor stamped 'Her Majesty'. I wonder if the thinking there was that it would be an insult to the Queen for a men's article to be made 'for' her?

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Alex this stub tail Rodgers Cast Steel ..... do you 'know' whether it is a Joseph Rodgers ? IIRC there were other Rodgers making razors that early.

Attachment 104129

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I'm not Alex, but I can tell you that Joseph Rodgers was a cutlery business at Norfolk street as far back as 1787.

However, the Universal British Directory also records an I & M Rodgers as pen knife and cutlery makers in 1791. There's no location listed, so I cannot tell if they're part of the Rodgers family we're familiar with.

Jimmy, lets think logically.:)
There are/were many Rodgers families on the Sheffield land.
1. George Rodgers, 150 Broad Lane. In 1849, G. Rodgers was listed as a spring knife and razor manufacturer in Edward Street, with a house in Broad Lane.
2. George Rodgers & Company. This cutler advertised in the Sheffield directory of 1839.
3. John Rodgers & Sons. The name first appears in a Sheffield directory, 1849, as a table and spring knife manufacturer in Bridge Street.
An interesting sidelight is thrown on John Rodgers's history by a legal case, which was launched in about 1840 by Joseph Rodgers & Sons. The latter took Nowill to court for infringing its name by selling knives stamped "J.Rodgers & Sons", with V(crown)R. According to Joseph Rodgers & Sons, the firm of "John Rodgers & Sons" never existed.
4. Joseph Rodgers & Company. According to trade advertisement, this company was founded in 1800 (through that may refer to the granting of its "3436" trademark). The name doesn't appear in Sheffield directories until 1871, when the firm of Joseph Rodgers was listed as a spring knife manufacturer at No.29 Norfolk Street. In that directory it was described as "successor to John Rodgers & Sons".
5. R.Rodgers & Sons. This business, which was formed after the death of C.W.Rodgers in 1860, should not be confused with Richard Rodgers & Son. The "R" denotes Rhoda, who inherited the enterprise after the death of her husband.
6. Richard Rodgers & Sons. In 1841, Richard Henry Rodgers (aged 58) and his son of the same name (aged 20) were spring knife cutlers working in Porter Brook Yard.
7. William Rodgers.
8. James Rodgers - the Unwin & Rodgers trademark.
9. And Joseph Rodgers & Sons.
According to the form of your blade. I think, the Joseph Rodgers & Sons company is closer.
From Henry T.Lummus article:
"In 1821, Joseph Rodgers and Sons secured an appointment as cutlers to His Majesty King George IV, an honor which encouraged them to greater efforts and stimulated their competitors. About that time arose the practices of scoring the top and bottom of the tang with file-cuts or flutings to keep the fingers from slipping, and of stamping the initial of the sovereign (G R, which became WR on the accession of William IV in 1830, and VR when the reign of Queen Victoria began in 1837)".
So. Jimmy, I'm sure, your razor was made before 1821.:)

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Originally Posted by Voidmonster

And come to think of it, I've never seen a razor stamped 'Her Majesty'. I wonder if the thinking there was that it would be an insult to the Queen for a men's article to be made 'for' her?

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We are not hirsute.

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Originally Posted by manah

Jimmy, lets think logically.:)
There are/were many Rodgers families on the Sheffield land.
1. George Rodgers, 150 Broad Lane. In 1849, G. Rodgers was listed as a spring knife and razor manufacturer in Edward Street, with a house in Broad Lane.
2. George Rodgers & Company. This cutler advertised in the Sheffield directory of 1839.
3. John Rodgers & Sons. The name first appears in a Sheffield directory, 1849, as a table and spring knife manufacturer in Bridge Street.
An interesting sidelight is thrown on John Rodgers's history by a legal case, which was launched in about 1840 by Joseph Rodgers & Sons. The latter took Nowill to court for infringing its name by selling knives stamped "J.Rodgers & Sons", with V(crown)R. According to Joseph Rodgers & Sons, the firm of "John Rodgers & Sons" never existed.
4. Joseph Rodgers & Company. According to trade advertisement, this company was founded in 1800 (through that may refer to the granting of its "3436" trademark). The name doesn't appear in Sheffield directories until 1871, when the firm of Joseph Rodgers was listed as a spring knife manufacturer at No.29 Norfolk Street. In that directory it was described as "successor to John Rodgers & Sons".
5. R.Rodgers & Sons. This business, which was formed after the death of C.W.Rodgers in 1860, should not be confused with Richard Rodgers & Son. The "R" denotes Rhoda, who inherited the enterprise after the death of her husband.
6. Richard Rodgers & Sons. In 1841, Richard Henry Rodgers (aged 58) and his son of the same name (aged 20) were spring knife cutlers working in Porter Brook Yard.
7. William Rodgers.
8. James Rodgers - the Unwin & Rodgers trademark.
9. And Joseph Rodgers & Sons.
According to the form of your blade. I think, the Joseph Rodgers & Sons company is closer.
From Henry T.Lummus article:
"In 1821, Joseph Rodgers and Sons secured an appointment as cutlers to His Majesty King George IV, an honor which encouraged them to greater efforts and stimulated their competitors. About that time arose the practices of scoring the top and bottom of the tang with file-cuts or flutings to keep the fingers from slipping, and of stamping the initial of the sovereign (G R, which became WR on the accession of William IV in 1830, and VR when the reign of Queen Victoria began in 1837)".
So. Jimmy, I'm sure, your razor was made before 1821.:)

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Following on from the LIST I was sent by Wullie; here are the maker's with Royal Lettering and crowns:

G(crown)R Allison (c1820-1830)
J. Brown W(crown)R (c1830-1837)
W(crown) R J.W. Brown & Co Columbia Work Sheffield (c1830-1837)
W(crown)R Butcher Sheffield (c1830-1837)
W(crown)R C. Congreaves patent American razor made from Naylor & Co’s celebrated steel (c1830-1837)
C. Congreaves W(crown)R (c1825-1865), Sheffield
G(crown)R Dudgeon (c1820-1830)
G(crown)Edwards (c1830-1837)
Eton (c1830-1837), W(crown)R Rogerson on blade
W(crown)R S. Frost Shear Steel (c1830-1837)
W&T Marsh W(crown)R (c1830-1837)
V(crown)R Marshes & Shepherd Pond Works Sheffield (c1837-1850)
W(crown)R WM. Nicholson (c1830-37)
W(crown)R Oates Refined Steel (c1830-1837)
W(crown)R Parkin’s Patent S. Ager’s Tristram India Steel (c1830-1837)
G(crown)R Rodgers Cutlers to His Majesty (c1820-1830)
W(crown)R James Rodgers Superior Cutlery (c1830-1837)
V(crown)R Joseph Rodgers & Sons Cutlers to their Majesties (c1837-1901), 6 Norfolk St, star and cross on back of tang
V(crown)R Rodgers Cutlers to Her Majesty Patent (c1837-1901), star and cross on back of tang
V(crown)R Joseph Rodgers & Sons Cutlers to Her Majesty Patent (c1837-1901), star and cross on back of tang
V(crown)R Rodgers Cutlers to Her Majesty Patent No. 6 Norfolk St (c1837-1901), star and cross on back of tang
W(crown)R Rogerson (c1830-1837), Eton on tang
W(crown)R Tillotson Sheffield (c1830-1837), ‘Far West Hunting Knife’ on blade
V(crown)R Thomas Turner & Co Sheffield/Encore T. Turner Best Steel/Turner & Co Cutlers to Her Majesty (c1834-1901), Sheffield
Van Vakt & Naylor W(crown)R (c1830-1837)
Wade, Wingfield and Rowbothham Sheffield (c1825-1858), No 82 Trenter St. Sheffield, crown and Harps on back of tang, small blade marked Wade, Wingfield & Rowbotham Sheffield
G(crown)R Warner (c1820-1830)
George Wostenholm W(crown)Celebrated Improved Cutlery (c1832-1837), Rockingham Works, Sheffield

It would appear most are W(crown) R (William IV). Interestly, Thomas turner & Co i listed with V crown R and 'cutlers to her majesty'. Time to keep a good eye me thinks.

postmastergeneral, the question by Jimmy was about Rodgers, but not about the makers with Royal Lettering and crowns stamps.

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Alex this stub tail Rodgers Cast Steel ..... do you 'know' whether it is a Joseph Rodgers ? IIRC there were other Rodgers making razors that early.

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Sorry, replied to the wrong thread

Here's a "Rodgers G(crown)R" stub tail that I recently finished restoring and is posted in the Restoration Sub-Forum:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/custo...-stubtail.html

Attachment 148954Attachment 148955Attachment 148956

First, I think this is a quite relevant thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...-warrants.html

And second, here's two of mine. Joseph Rodgers, Cutlers to their majesties, VR:

Attachment 149021

and George Rodgers VR:

Attachment 149022

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Originally Posted by ScienceGuy

First, I think this is a quite relevant thread: http://straightrazorpalace.com/razor...-warrants.html

And second, here's two of mine. Joseph Rodgers, Cutlers to their majesties, VR:

Attachment 149021

and George Rodgers VR:

Attachment 149022

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I love the Norfolk Lane dodge!

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Originally Posted by postmastergeneral

Hi
Slightly catching the bug here, I've just purchased my 2nd vintage SR, the first being a John Heiffor with ivory scales and a lovely restored Wade & Butcher. I came across the manufacturer Joseph Rodgers & Sons. For now, i'm interested in vintage English razors as I come from the UK. I was wanting to know if the
below logo appears on any of their razors? I'm particulary interested in the VR (Queen Victoria) cypher and the words 'cutlers to her majesty' as well as the Maltese Cross (used to cancel the very first postage stamps 1d penny blacks). Seeing several on eBay they all say 'cutlers to their majesties'. After reading some more info online I learnt that the monarchs they covered were GIVR, WIVR, VR, EVIIR and GVR all of which had royal warrants for their cutlery. I would also like to know if anyone knows of any other razors which contain Royal Insignia on them, especially VR. Thanks
Attachment 104075

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I've a wee Harrison Brothers & Howson with VR stamped and the Joseph Rogers I had also had it if I remember. Warrants on goods tend to move around different manufacturers from monarch to monarch, queen mother, prince of Wales etc. All can dish out warrants.

What about ROGERS? (no D)

I have a Joseph Rodgers stamped WR 'cutlers to Their majesties'

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Originally Posted by manah

http://www.strazors.com/uploads/gall...rs_set_311.jpg
http://www.strazors.com/uploads/imag...ers_set_4b.jpg

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How neat, I myself have not seen a two part tang like that before. How cool.

Love Joseph Rodgers & Sons razors, have own several and still own a few such as a matching pair of French point in Ivory, a frame back, a near wedge in bone and a shoulderless round point.

From the info I've seen depending on when they were made they can be stamped 'Cutlers To Her Majesty', 'Cutlers To His Majesty' or ;the most common 'Cutlers To Their Majesties'. Every one I've owned has been stamped 'Cutlers To Their Majesties' except one that was stamped 'Cutlers To His Majesty', never owned one stamped 'Cutlers To Her Majesty'.

A lot of great info here on JR&Sons razors, all you need do is do a little digging...............good luck and enjoy one of the finest Sheffield razors out there!

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/u...1/xm4asrf6.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/u...1/ghfv9qce.jpg

What about ROGERS? Have anyone heard or seen that Mark before?

Danbongers69@gmail.com is my email I have info on what your looking for

Hello everyone, my name is Sonja and i am from Fredericton, NB, Canada...i have 1 question about the knives , my husband and i bought the Joseph Rodgers & Sons cutlery at a yard sale last year, but our knives have the V R above the name and we were wondering what that means. And if they would be worth more.
Thx all, have a great day

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Originally Posted by Sonja

Hello everyone, my name is Sonja and i am from Fredericton, NB, Canada...i have 1 question about the knives , my husband and i bought the Joseph Rodgers & Sons cutlery at a yard sale last year, but our knives have the V R above the name and we were wondering what that means. And if they would be worth more.
Thx all, have a great day

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This is a royal cipher, and stands for Victoria Regina (Queen Victoria). It was used during the time of her reign, so that's when they were made (unfortunately a long period so it's hard to pin down an exact date). It doesn't mean the objects had anything to do with the royal family, just when they were made.