Wm Congreaves/ Naylor and Co's Celebrated Steel

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08-18-2012, 10:48 PM
sharptonn

2 Attachment(s)

C Congreave/ Naylor and Co's Celebrated Steel

This 9/8 Congreve is marked WR and made with Naylor and Co's Celebrated steel. I have been trying my hand at Neil Miller's ability to know and find out about such things. I am afraid I am a dismal failure! ;)
I have however learned some things. Perhaps Neil will come along and correct some of them!
I have found little about Congreve after searching other than they made fine cutlery in Sheffield from 1825 til 1865. More on them would be good to know.
It seems the Naylor name in steelmaking spanned at least 3 generations back when. Naylor and Sanderson was founded in 1776 by George Naylor, Thomas Sanderson, and a filemaker named Daniel Brammal. They imported most steel from suppliers such as Swallow of the Atterworks until 1822 when they aquired the Swallow Works and became the largest crucible steel makers in Sheffield.
It Seems a son, George, was born in 1769 and worked in the company until retiring in 1829. Stay with me!! HIS son, George Portis Naylor who was born in 1800 and apparantly was with the company as well, until his father's retirement, whereupon he left the company and it became Sanderson Bros. (another long story!)
Then George Portis Naylor joined with to form Naylor, Hutchinson, and Vickers (Vickers was Naylor's son in law who had a big steel-rolling operation). The only mention I have found for simply "Naylor and Co" is where Naylor, Hutchinson, and Vickers were petitioned by the Master Cutler over a bank failure and the company was named Naylor and Co in the proceedings.

Since William's Reign was from 1830-1837 it would seem this razor was made during the Naylor, Hutchinson, and Vicker's days. I suppose Naylor's name was synonomous with fine steel and would have represented the "steel" in the company. OR it was made later than William's reign by Naylor and Co after the bank failure of 1843 and marked WR (as I have heard they sometimes did).
Anyway it is a nice piece. The scales are obviously not original. I wonder what kind of horn/collar was on it originally. It would be nice to get it back close to what it was!
Tom :)
08-18-2012, 11:52 PM
manah

Quote:

Wm Congreaves

Sorry. But where is this stamp?
I see the stamp of Charles Congreve, who was born in Sheffield on 20 March 1799.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/show-...tml#post845649
08-19-2012, 12:21 AM
sharptonn

Quote:

Originally Posted by manah

Sorry. But where is this stamp?
I see the stamp of Charles Congreve, who was born in Sheffield on 20 March 1799.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/show-...tml#post845649

Ah, My mistake there, Manah! I suppose I had WR on the mind! (probably Wm Greaves as well!:)) I tried to edit, but could not! It would change in the editor, but as I submitted, it came back as it was! I will try again! Thanks!
08-19-2012, 12:32 AM
sharptonn

Now I could correct! I saw nothing about Congreve being a partner! So, Manah, do you think this razor was made as he was affiliated with Naylor, Hutchinson, and Vickers, or after He left them in 1834?
08-19-2012, 01:04 AM
Wullie

Sir William Congreve, 2nd Baronet (20 May 1772 – 16 May 1828) was an English inventor and rocket artillery pioneer distinguished for his development and deployment of Congreve rockets.

You sure you don't have a rocket?
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...it/feldman.jpg

NICE ROCKET SIR!!!! :p
08-19-2012, 01:10 AM
sharptonn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wullie

Sir William Congreve, 2nd Baronet (20 May 1772 – 16 May 1828) was an English inventor and rocket artillery pioneer distinguished for his development and deployment of Congreve rockets. You sure you don't have a rocket? NICE ROCKET SIR!!!! :p

Well, In this case, I surely learn from my mistakes! Thanks, Wullie! ;)
08-19-2012, 03:01 AM
Wullie

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Well, In this case, I surely learn from my mistakes! Thanks, Wullie! ;)

No charge.

ALWAYS glad to help a brother in Houston.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...dog20smile.jpg
08-19-2012, 03:07 AM
IamSt8ght

That is some pretty interesting history, but aside from that, you have one beastly razor there. Very nice. How does it shave?
08-19-2012, 03:22 AM
Costabro

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wullie

No charge.

ALWAYS glad to help a brother in Houston.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...dog20smile.jpg

That's the silliest looking dog I've ever seen. I can't stop chuckling....
08-19-2012, 03:32 AM
Wintchase

Quote:

Originally Posted by Costabro

That's the silliest looking dog I've ever seen. I can't stop chuckling....

What dog?...
08-19-2012, 04:16 AM
sharptonn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wintchase

What dog?...

Really! That's no dog! That's Wullie! :D
08-19-2012, 04:24 AM
Wullie

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Really! That's no dog! That's Wullie! :D

Nuh uh.

THIS
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...hit/INGMO1.jpg
is WULLIE!!:rofl2:
08-19-2012, 06:06 PM
Neil Miller

Charles Congreve was born in 1799. He was a partner in Naylor, Hutchinson & Vickers until 1834, when he set up on his own, first at Gell Street then (1897) at the Arundel Works.

That makes the razor fall within the reign of William IV (1830 - 1837) - he is also noted for the amount of knives he mare that bear the "WR" royal cipher.

An anti-slave trader and abolitionist, he wasn't particularly blessed for his pains - his first wife died in 1833 and the second in 1841. In 1849 he moved to America and took the place of Geo. Wostenholm's New York rep. Later he represented a fair number of english cutlers in the US. In 1855 his son joined him, and they sold english and welsh iron to the railroad makers. He died at the age of 69 in 1868.

Naylor & Sanderson were steelmakers - an uncle (William Naylor) also had a rolling mill. The start of their company is not clear, but probably was somewhere between 1790 - 1802 as Naylor's apprenticeship was not finished until 1790 and Sanderson did not get his Freedom granted by the Cutlers Guild until 1802. The Naylor family included cutler Samuel Naylor, whose pedigree goes back to the 1780s. Naylor & Sanderson made both cutlery and steel. A great amount of their table cutlery was exported to America - 5/6ths according to George Nayloe in 1812. They worked from Carver Lane and Division Street but built new crucible furnaces in 1814 in West Street. Bt 1820 the production of steel had far exceeded the cutlery side of the company. In 1829 the firm was re-organised and known as Sanderson Bros. George IV did not begin his reign until 1830, which makes it a bit awkward for them to have been the steel suppliers for your razor, Tom!

Edward Vickers, a miller, married George Naylor's daughter Anne and they had two sons - Thomas E. Vickers, born 1833 and Albert Vickers, born 1838. He and George Naylor formed Naylor Vickers, a separate entity to Naylor & Sanderson, in 1828. It was concerned solely with steel, and with the growth of the american railroad Vickers seized the chance to land a large contract, becoming senior partner in the company. It became Vickers, Sons & Co in 1867 and Vickers, sons & Maxim in 1897 - Maxim being of maxim machine gun fame - not to mention the celebrated Vickers machine gun. The original name, though, was Naylor, Vickers & Co, but it was often shortened, particularly in america, to either Naylor-Vickers or Naylor & Co., so it was probably this company that supplied the steel rather than Naylor & Sanderson.

Naylor and Co. incidently supplied the famed plough-maker John Deere with steel for his early ploughs.

Regards,
Neil
08-19-2012, 06:41 PM
sharptonn

Thanks, Neil! It seems my gathered info was a bit off by at least half! Still, it was fun to dig and especially good to learn more, particularly what was happening within these companies during William's reign. So my razor might well have been a John Deere plow, eh? I suppose this monster resembles one! ;)
Very good of you to supply this information. As to my original post, what color/type of horn and style collars do you reckon it originally came with?
I do wish to clothe it in period scales if I can find the pieces!

Again, Many Thanks,
Tom
08-19-2012, 06:45 PM
sharptonn

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wullie

Nuh uh.

THIS
is WULLIE!!:rofl2:

Now Wullie...If that ain't nice! Oh well! Fingers among friends are fingers indeed! :beer1:
08-19-2012, 07:02 PM
Neil Miller

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharptonn

...what color/type of horn and style collars do you reckon it originally came with?
I do wish to clothe it in period scales if I can find the pieces!

Again, Many Thanks,
Tom

Looks about right to - Lummus shows one here:

Attachment 104209

Looks like dark horn. Notice that having "Naylor & Cos Celebrated Steel" on the tang is taken by Lummus to advertise thir steel in America.

Regards,
Neil
08-19-2012, 07:08 PM
Wullie

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Now Wullie...If that ain't nice! Oh well! Fingers among friends are fingers indeed! :beer1:

Horn was broke. :rofl2:
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...ap/Gavin-1.gif

:)
08-20-2012, 01:25 AM
roughkype

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wullie

Nuh uh.

THIS
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...hit/INGMO1.jpg
is WULLIE!!:rofl2:

Yep, you can always tell a Swede, but you can't tell him much!
08-20-2012, 04:36 AM
Voidmonster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

... George IV did not begin his reign until 1830, which makes it a bit awkward for them to have been the steel suppliers for your razor, Tom!

I do believe you've gotten your beginnings and endings mixed up, Neil. :)

You've got a fair ways to go before you catch me in the transposition Olympics though...
08-20-2012, 08:41 AM
Neil Miller

Doh! You spotted a mistake Voidmonster - but lighted on the wrong bit of it! We are talking about a "WR" cipher so I meant William of course, not George! The date is correct for William.

William IV reigned from 1830 to 1837. The reign was short because William was getting on a bit in years when he ascended - 69 yrs old. His brother - George IV - had some bad luck. He married a 'commoner' (not of the Royal family) behind his fathers back, but the marriage was declared illegal and his father forced him into an arranged marriage. When he saw how ugly the bride was and smelled her (she had a habit of not washing) he declared "I am not well, pray get me a glass of brandy." The hapless fellow spent his wedding night lying on the floor in front of the fire, drunk as a lord.

So - we aren't even in the same event - I'm in the typo Olympics! We can both take Gold!

Regards,
Neil
08-20-2012, 02:36 PM
sharptonn

Don't mess up around here, Neil! They are ruthless! :rofl2: I should know........ Tom
08-20-2012, 04:07 PM
Neil Miller

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Don't mess up around here, Neil! They are ruthless! :rofl2: I should know........ Tom

Don't worry Tom, I can take it...now where's mother, I feel a bit emotional...:cry:
08-20-2012, 11:15 PM
Voidmonster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

So - we aren't even in the same event - I'm in the typo Olympics! We can both take Gold!

Zak proudly dons his medal, stumbles, then falls backwards off the podium.
08-20-2012, 11:47 PM
Wullie

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharptonn

Don't mess up around here, Neil! They are ruthless! :rofl2: I should know........ Tom

http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...it/lolbags.gif

:rofl2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Doh! You spotted a mistake Voidmonster - but lighted on the wrong bit of it! We are talking about a "WR" cipher so I meant William of course, not George! The date is correct for William.

William IV reigned from 1830 to 1837. The reign was short because William was getting on a bit in years when he ascended - 69 yrs old. His brother - George IV - had some bad luck. He married a 'commoner' (not of the Royal family) behind his fathers back, but the marriage was declared illegal and his father forced him into an arranged marriage. When he saw how ugly the bride was and smelled her (she had a habit of not washing) he declared "I am not well, pray get me a glass of brandy." The hapless fellow spent his wedding night lying on the floor in front of the fire, drunk as a lord.

So - we aren't even in the same event - I'm in the typo Olympics! We can both take Gold!

Regards,
Neil

Reminds of a BLACKADDER episode where he was to marry some "darling" from Spain. She was such a troll that poor Baldrick had to carry the night. LOL
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...p/baldrick.jpg