Steel now and then

I am new at straight razor shaving. I used a Parker shavette for months before I decided to go to a straight razor...from a dozen years before that as a double edged guy w/ brush & bowl. I spent a long time looking at every newly manufactured straight razor I could find and saw a few that I liked a lot. But gradually I got more interested in vintage blades and wound up with a Red Imp as my first razor. I was just thinking this morning that most of this site is devoted to vintage blades rather than new. I think maybe customs come in second and new razors third in terms of attention.
So many things have improved over time technologically speaking and I am asking I guess, in a long winded way, are any of the new steels superior to what can be picked up as vintage? Cost is a factor, the fascinating history of the straight razor, but why else is forum weighted towards vintage and custom? Myself, I don't think I will ever buy a newly made razor and I'm not in a position to buy a custom.

For me it boils down to planned obsolescence. I am rather opposed to it, so anything that is "vintage" and was made well enough for continued use today gets my attention. Bicycles, razors, cars, guns, kitchenware...

Obviously, the lore and mystery around blades is a part of it as well. There are not many manufacturers of quality new blades (on a production scale) so the vintage ones are just way more interesting, at least to many of us. With the vintage blades you get the thrill of the hunt, maybe a restore and the joy of bringing something "back to life." With the new blades, you shell out a set price and open the package :shrug: Just not as much to talk about.

Vintage razors have a soul...............new razors are just new razors.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Vintage razors have a soul...............new razors are just new razors.

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Yes but new razors develop a soul as they become your friend, over the years.

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Originally Posted by Foxhill

Yes but new razors develop a soul as they become your friend, over the years.

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One must have more than one! Personally, I'm looking forward to my new one, the SRP razor; which I look forward to watching it develop character. One day, razors that are new to us may be coveted...

It's a good question, one answer could be that the grind was done by hand back in the days and now in machines(not customs) whitch I think says a lot about why many prefer vintage hand finished razors infront of new ones. The grinders back then was highly regarded craftsmen too ... And of course the soul as well :)

I'm very glade to see this topic of 'soul' being brought up. It easy to forget that razors are made up of the very same atoms as we are. Just because their molecules move in different way than ours do we mistakingly think of them as inanimate. They're not.

Don't really know why vintage razors seem to be preferred over newly manufactured especially since sought after vintage is at or surpasses the cost of current production razors. Modern steel is at least as good as vintage steel and possibly even better because of advancements in metallurgy. The only possible down side to modern razors is that the grinders may not be as skilled as the old timers were at the art.

I think it has more to do with the thrill of the chase to find something unique and not currently available. The thrill of rehabbing an oldie and putting it back in use. As a bonus it is possible to that at less cost than buying new. Pretty much more rewarding an experience than buying off the shelf. At least it is for me, anyway.

Bob

I love new razors and new stuff in general.

When you buy a new razor; condition isn't a factor, price is relatively set, you are the first and only owner. I like and appreciate all those things.

And I do believe that a new razor can have just as much character as old. Take my two dovos as example. I bought them six years ago. Back then I failed at honing and shaving with those two blades. Now six years later the dovos are shave ready by my hand and great to shave with. They both bear scars from my early attempts, a reminder of struggle, but they are none the worse for it. For me those blades are full of character.

Michael

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Originally Posted by mjsorkin

I love new razors and new stuff in general.

When you buy a new razor; condition isn't a factor, price is relatively set, you are the first and only owner. I like and appreciate all those things.

And I do believe that a new razor can have just as much character as old. Take my two dovos as example. I bought them six years ago. Back then I failed at honing and shaving with those two blades. Now six years later the dovos are shave ready by my hand and great to shave with. They both bear scars from my early attempts, a reminder of struggle, but they are none the worse for it. For me those blades are full of character.

Michael

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Character yes but really its not the same has shaving with a razor that 100-150 years old..............thats soul.

Martin103, can you give me your definition of soul? I know it is going to be pretty interesting reply if you do...

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Character yes but really its not the same has shaving with a razor that 100-150 years old..............thats soul.

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Great thread, and posts #s 9, 4, and 2 are right on. I have new (Hart and Theirs Issard) and very old (Wade & Butchers, Wosty Pipe, Dubl Duck, Mappin & Webb, and C.S. Bresnick Vesuvius) razors, all are great shavers, and I can't say one is better than another, but each one is different and unique.

New razor advantage: Stainless steel

Old razor advantage: Lower cost for a basic razor. Historical value.

Of course, older razors are not going to stay cheap.

though stainless steel has many advantages and is a great metal for many applications, not everyone will agree this is the case with straight razors.

I see no differences in steel quality as far as how a razor performs be it vintage or brand new. Razors don't need space age formulations. For what they have to do the classic alloys seem to work the best. When you monkey with the steel you may gain in one quality but pay a price in another.

What does make a difference is the workmanship. It was far superior years ago than it is now. Of course I'm not including custom class razors.

The reason we talk more vintage is because that is where most of the interest lies. They are way more plentiful than new ones and are way cheaper if you stay away from those certain brands. Also many are interested in restoration and there shouldn't be much to restore in a brand new razor.

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Originally Posted by WW243

Martin103, can you give me your definition of soul? I know it is going to be pretty interesting reply if you do...

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If you had the pleasure to shave with a really old razor, might be easier to understand what im talking about. You can think of how was the razor originally made by craftsman and just bring yourself in that time frame and how people live then, and what was available to them to make this razor that still shaves just as good today then it did when it was produce.
Another aspect of this is the people you own the razor and cared for it, in them years there were not other means of shaving.It is also possible that a few men used this razor their entire life or perhaps pass down to a newer generation. Just think of the history that razor has survived and how it got to you and its still usable! What other tool can you use today that has that kind of soul............ certainly not a brand spanking new razor.

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Originally Posted by eod7

New razor advantage: Stainless steel

Old razor advantage: Lower cost for a basic razor. Historical value.

Of course, older razors are not going to stay cheap.

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Vintage razors are also available in stainless which has been around a fair while.

Bob

The potential for superior performance in steel exists, but it is generally not being exploited by makers, with a few possible exceptions in the custom realm.

As far as soul...just sell someone a cheap razor and add a few decades to its actual age. I handed someone a nice gendai (relatively modern) period tanto and told them it was a koto (early period) piece...they became much more reverent and believed it had a special aura. I like the old stuff too and like the connection to history, but I can't bring myself to think it superior, unless it actually is.

Steels available today are FAR superior to what was available 150 years ago. As was mentioned above, it doesn't take a space age steel to do the job an early steel age steel will do.

I like the vintage aspect. To me, using a piece of shaving gear that may have cost the original owner a week or a month's wages is fascinating. The fact that the razor has withstood the ravages of time and is just as serviceable today was in the 1850's is even more fascinating. Oftimes, I can't help but wonder what the original purchaser did for a living when he bought that razor and why or why not a particular razor was barely or heavily worn. Those guys bought them to use, they didn't buy them to collect them. I buy 'em to use and enjoy as well.

Granted, they take a bit more maintenance than a new stainless steel razor does. To me, that's just part of the fun.

FYI, I shoot a flint lock rifle in addition to my high speed, low drag stuff too. The last three Harley's I've owned have had no electric starters and been kick only for starting.;)

New razor advantage: You can find a Masonic for $14.95 on ebay

Old razor advantage: You can find an vintage Masonic on Ebay for a month's wages still.

Some things never change.

I suppose I am somewhat to blame on this expression of ancient razors having souls, so I can explain my thoughts.
Some of us are collectors and have restored and honed many razors, old and newer. Being a hobby, learning about them is as much a part, if not more, than actually shaving with them. Learning what was involved back in the day to make them is truly remarkable. Starting with the steel, it was carefully made in smaller batches for it's intended purpose using quite archaic methods of the time. The makers worked hard manually to adjust ingredients and temperatures. The grinders were brought up apprenticed and had to prove themselves worthy of the craft. Their grinds were their signature on time eternal. The animals harvested for scales were living, breathing souls as well. The majestic life they had is part of the anatomy in a fine, antique razor. If one grows to appreciate these things along with the lives devoted to them, it is a truly remarkable thing, especially if one can visualize the previous owners and the history of the item's journey across the seas and continents. Making them do their intended chore is truly rewarding . All these things matter to some of us as we lay it to our face. The feel, the textures, and the sound of the old crucible steel's alto song as whiskers are laid to waste.
No, it is not for everyone as some just want a shave. But some, as I, have come to realize by the razors themselves, that they do indeed have souls. If you appreciate them, they share yours! ;) JMHO.......Tom