Brand new Dovo En Vogue 105 - misaligned blade hitting scales

Attachment 116843Attachment 116844Attachment 116845Attachment 116846Attachment 116847Attachment 116848Attachment 116849Attachment 116850Attachment 116851Hi Guys,

So I recently became the owner of this lovely razor, but it has a bit of an issue which I am not sure if it is serious/common or warrants replacement.

At the beginning I did not notice it, or it was not as bad, but when I close the blade now it has a tendency to graze the inside of the scales sometimes. Also upon examining the end of the scales where the spacer is, there seems to be a little defect: One side of the scales is perfectly flush with the spacer, but the other side is slightly lower and coming away from it. I am wondering if this is the source of the misalignment.

If I close it while pushing it ever so slightly to the left, I can avoid the problem, but I don't see this as a solution. It SHOULD close dead on center right? That's how they intended it to work?

Well, my girlfriend wrote an e-mail to the seller in Italy and they replied saying basically that this is to be expected from this razor due to the micarta used for the scales. They say I need to make sure I center it myself every time before closing the razor. They have however offered to replace the razor but say that it will happen again.

My questions to you guys is:

Is this really a fundamental characteristic of a razor with micarta scales? If so, why would they offer to replace it anyway?

I will upload a picture of the razor when I get home in a couple of hours and you will see what I mean hopefully!

Thanks for reading :)

Daniel

It has nothing to do with the Micarta...

I will wait for the pics before saying more

Hi gssixgun,

I would tend to agree with you, not based on my knowledge or experience but just on common sense. I see no sense in using a material which has this problem. Seems like one would avoid it if that was the case.

Anyway, I have uploaded the pictures I just took. I think they show pretty well that it is off center. I think you can also see what I mean about the one side being a bit separated from the spacer.

Let me know what you think!

Thanks again.

Daniel

I have honed several of these, and rescaled a few others. Only one was rescaled due to the blade hitting the scales, though (along with the fact that the owner thought the scales too 'fat' for the 5/8 blades weight.

What made the blade hit the scales was the fact that one of the scales was marginally longer than the other and that the holes were slightly further apart on the longer scale than on the shorter scale. They really looked like mis-matched scales, but I suppose they are all cast and pre-drilled before being sent out to be used by the blade setter-in department. Perhaps the problem arises when the moulds get old or out of whack (heat/cold - who knows?!) but drilling the pivot after assembly of the wedge end would have stopped the problem arising.

As for the sellers assumption that the material - micarta - is the problem and that all En Vogue models with micarta scales suffer from this fault, that is nonsense! Maybe all his stock have this fault, if he has even opened the packaging to look. Either that or you are going to get your own razor back when you return it, all for the cost of shipping both ways!

Regards,
Neil

Hi Neil,

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Do you think this is the same case as you described with one being longer than the other? Woud you return this razor if it were yours?

How about a photo of the pivot end looking down to see if the pin is misaligned, as Neil described. I bet it is. When I first read your post, before the photos , it occurred to me that I am always careful about closing a razor whether I need to be or not. Now that I've seen the photos I would return that razor.

If the pivot holes are caddy-corner and don't line up the side that is off could put enough pressure on the pin to cause a slight bend when it was peened, and cause the blade to close that way. Just me, but if it were mine, I would undo just the pivot, check to see if both blanks are flat on the inner surfaces, if yes, then redrill one of the holes w/ a 5/64 bit to give some extra space in one of the holes, once it is re-pinned and tight, the extra space should be enough to keep the pin from binding or bending anymore. Just my $.02, maybe Glen has another way to do it w/out unpinning the blade?

Kefka - it's hard to say without seeing the razor in its entirety - with the one I rescaled you could actually see it was bigger - it was a fraction longer at either end and also a bit wider. almost as if a 5/8 scale had been paired with a 6/8 scale, if you see what I mean. As for returning it - if it was local and I hadn't asked for a razor that hit the scales or had not been told about it first, then I would return it in a heartbeat. The distance involved and the comparative simplicity of fixing it would tend to persuade me not to, though.

Tiddle - that is what happened to the one I rescaled - the longer distance between the holes on the longer scale caused the other one to flex. This is a new Dovo and uses that awful new pinning system - one flattened end, like the head of a small tack, the other pin-point like a tack and you force one or two domed washers over the pin-point end and up against the scale before cutting off the excess bit of rod. Trouble is that most of the people who banged them together in the factory must have been myopic, as nearly all the pivot pins I have seen using this system (and I see a lot!) have been cut with too much of the bar left, probably due to not pressing the whole shebang tightly together before cutting, so that it is kinked in the pivot hole of the tang. That alone could throw the blade over, as you say.

If it has to be re-pinned at the pivot, you have the added dilemma of using the awful new pins or the traditional method, in which case the pivot pinning will not match the wedge pinning, so you will have to adjust that end as well. Or grow to like it!

Regards,
Neil

Neil is speaking truth, and actually did it way better than I would have :)

The only thing I would add are some issues with Micarta scales in general,

Micarta is pretty much a "Dead on" material, what I mean by that is it does not allow for errors, it has near zero give, so any little issue is magnified..
Also the Dovo Micarta scales are a bit thick which means they have NO flex so any error in pinning or the tang itself will cause problems...
Neil also pointed out the issues with the one sided new style pins, that also severely limits my pinning adjustment tricks that Tiddle was alluding to, the new style pins only give two points of adjustment rather then the four that old style gave..
There are ways to adjust the center still, should returning the razor fail for you, but they are a bit more involved..

Rule number one,,, Guide every blade into the scales
Rule number two,,, If you buy a razor and your not happy contact the vendor and ask them to fix the problem..


The good news, those edges on the Dovo #105 are incredible shavers :D

Went to Gimp image editor. Here is the problem, pinned on a skew, IOW, misaligned ;

Attachment 116869

Yeah well spotted there Jimmy, think you're right. Thanks to everyone else as well for the input. Fixing it is something I definitely would not be comfortable doing yet as I have never even seen a razor taken apart in front of me much less fixed one, I will get there eventually though. I think I have made my mind up at this stage about the razor. It is clearly misaligned and that is not what was requested. It will be returned and a new one purchased and with any luck it will be defect free and I can get on with shaving! Back to the DE for now :)

Daniel

Make sure you tell the guy that you 'know' it is misaligned , and therefore a factory defect in workmanship. If he thinks he can bamboozle you with that baloney about the micarta typically being that way he is liable to try and get out of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Kefka - it's hard to say without seeing the razor in its entirety - with the one I rescaled you could actually see it was bigger - it was a fraction longer at either end and also a bit wider. almost as if a 5/8 scale had been paired with a 6/8 scale, if you see what I mean. As for returning it - if it was local and I hadn't asked for a razor that hit the scales or had not been told about it first, then I would return it in a heartbeat. The distance involved and the comparative simplicity of fixing it would tend to persuade me not to, though.

Tiddle - that is what happened to the one I rescaled - the longer distance between the holes on the longer scale caused the other one to flex. This is a new Dovo and uses that awful new pinning system - one flattened end, like the head of a small tack, the other pin-point like a tack and you force one or two domed washers over the pin-point end and up against the scale before cutting off the excess bit of rod. Trouble is that most of the people who banged them together in the factory must have been myopic, as nearly all the pivot pins I have seen using this system (and I see a lot!) have been cut with too much of the bar left, probably due to not pressing the whole shebang tightly together before cutting, so that it is kinked in the pivot hole of the tang. That alone could throw the blade over, as you say.

If it has to be re-pinned at the pivot, you have the added dilemma of using the awful new pins or the traditional method, in which case the pivot pinning will not match the wedge pinning, so you will have to adjust that end as well. Or grow to like it!

Regards,
Neil

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I am with Glen and Neil on this, I realize they use these pin setups at the factory for speed and ease of production, but man they SUCK hard when you have a problem with them. I would definitely send that back after seeing the newer photo, that's bent pretty badly, must've been a Monday or Friday product.

So, I got my razor back the other day and it is centered, woohoo! :)

What's strange is I noticed that it seems to have the same gap where the scales and spacer meet (though not quite as bad) and it has the same crooked pin. So I am wondering now is this another thing I need to be concerned about? Also I have noticed that on one side of the razor it seems that the spine is worn a little bit more at the heel than the rest of the blade. Will this cause problems with the edge later on or is it just that maybe the spine was slightly thicker at that point? I have a couple of photos again so that you may judge for yourselves.

On a side note I have shave twice with it now and am quite happy with it considering that its basically my first time. I honed it lightly on the 8k and coticule after my first shave as I felt it was not quite sharp enough to deal with the chin area and I feel that it is a bit better today so I guess I must be doing something right anyway or at least not doing anything wrong yet!!

It was a great feeling of satisfaction to actually do a whole shave including ATG with the razor without resorting to the DE :) Now I guess I just need to refine my technique and learn how to properly shave with a straight.

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