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Howdy all -
10 days in and my Dovo just got its first tiny nick, maybe a 1/4" from the tip - I can (and just did) shave with it, after some serious stropping, but recognize this is not a situation to let sit.
Any guidance in step-by-step nick repair would be appreciated.
Thanks -
Dan O
If you're new at this, there are three steps:
1. Send it off to be honed.
2. Get it back in the mail.
3. Shave with it.
Ha!
I get that it's best to leave it to the pros...but I am not feeling like I should buy another blade locally while I wait for the nicked one to come back.
Surely, had this happened to Grandpa, he might have taken a different path?
Did Grandpa hone his own razors ? If not he would have:Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyMcO
1. Sent it off to be honed.
2. Got it back in the mail.
3. Shaved with it.
:)
And there you have it! Next question; Did Grandpa own a second razor, or did he go to the barber in the interim? :)
Mick
There is an easy alternative, but it involves more steps:
1. Buy a 12K finisher for about a hundred bucks.
2. Dull the edge further with inexperienced technique.
3. Purchase the 4K/8K combo stone for less than a hundred bucks.
4. Eliminate whatever bevel was there in the first place.
5. Purchase a 1K stone to reset the bevel.
6. Express your frustrations in the forum regarding when to know you've set a bevel.
7. Purchase a DMT 325, a few loupes and maybe a USB microscope to examine the edge.
8. Send it off to be honed.
9. Get it back in the mail and shave with it.
You'll eventually go through all those steps, but for now all you need is a box,
an address and some postage. As for what to do in the meantime, that is why
God made DEs.
Maybe you could go see grampa's barber and if he uses straights will be able to hone out the chip.
Is there a set of steps that the cool kids follow that doesn't include lamenting about messing up their own razors? Or should I just accept as fact that I will always be a noob and rely on third parties for everything?
Or am I just asking the wrong question?
Danny,
You won't be a noob forever, but you're asking for someone to give you an answer that provides instant gratificiation. That won't happen. Accept that for now you are a noob, and that entails growing pains.
The advice you've gotten, at this stage in your learning, is not bad advice. No one is telling you to forever be dependent on others, but given the interest in not having to buy another blade whilst you await the return of your current blade, we are all guessing you'd be even less happy possibly not being able to use the current blade for some time as you develop your technique to get the current blade shaveable. Keep in mind that if your blade is nicked, it's not just needing to tune the smoothness of the blade, you're talking about having to remove a lot of metal and reset a bevel. That's better left to someone else until you know how to maintain an unmarred edge. If you send it to someone with experience, turn around will be a matter of days in the right hands. You will wait almost that long for shipping on a set of stones you buy.
The other alternative, is to update your profile to show your location, or use the member locator and see if there is someone nearby you that is willing to meet up and give you a little mentorship/honing demonstration...
I am not asking for instant gratification - I am asking for guidance, for step-by-step instructions.
There seems to be some detailed instruction in how I should handle expressing my frustration about rolling the edge/killing the bevel via honing in counterintuitive order, and a number of snarky responses (if there were a better description, I'd use it; there isn't).
What I haven't read is anything that would set someone on the path to learning how to hone other than asking another member locally.
To wit, I am wondering if asking another member locally is going to produce any better result than I am getting so far.
I don't want to come across as ingrateful for SRP as a forum, but put yourself in my shoes. The responses here have not exactly demonstrated a willingness to share information on how to become adept at honing or even how to start, so much as suggesting that this is a skill that only a select constituency - one that is exclusive of yours truly - possesses.
I have, in other hobbies and occupations, been in a situation to let people know that there is no 'magic bullet' to fix their problem/address their request, but I usually follow this up with the necessary steps to achieve the knowledge I am being asked of.
I guess I expected the same, and I'd be lying if I told you I was anything but disappointed.
Surely, people who learn how to hone have a starting point, and that starting point cannot 100% of the time be asking another SRP member to mentor them.
Danny
You basically have two choices 1) to send it out to be professionally fixed or alternately get a local member to do it for you and 2) spend about $400.00 or so to acquire the equipment needed to repair the damage.
In the library section of this site's shave wiki you will find Honing a damaged blade - Straight Razor Place Wiki . That should go a long way to showing you what needs to be done to fix the damage.
That is about all I can tell you, the choice is yours. If you feel that you want to have a go at it yourself have at her. It might be better to learn on an old practice razor first so you don't mess up a brand new razor though.
Bob
Danny, I'm sorry if you feel you're not getting great help. I would encourage you, if you're available, to attend the NY/NJ meetup this Sunday. It would be a great opportunity for you to get some hands on advice. In my experience, the members here are more than happy to help.
Part of the reason you're seeing responses that seem counterintuitive, is because honing is a "feel" based exercise and does not always translate to a written word. Also, what stones you use affects things. I would encourage you to check out some of the videos posted by Lynn Abrams and Glen Mercurio (GSSixGun) both here and on YouTube if you're determined to jump into the deep end of that pool without any direct assistance. Their videos are very well done and informative.
Hey man (the OP), I feel yer pain. I have been teaching myself how to hone over the last 5-6 months, and I can tell you that one thing I've learned is that NOTHING is set in stone. I was the guy who was asking a million and one questions, and was getting frustrated when I could not get answers that translated into positive results on the hone.
Now that's not to say that I didn't get some great advice here on SRP (I got TONS), but the last thing you want to hear as a Noob is that YMMV, or "just send it out to be honed". You know what, though? As it turns out, that WAS the best advice I could have gotten, because it's true. You really won't have a good idea of what you're doing unless you have a "benchmark" to compare it to.
I sent my razor to Glen to be honed, and the reason that was such a good move on my part is because it gave me something to work towards; a direction to move in if you will. I also found out that the best way to learn how to hone is to use YouTube videos & advice from SRP as guidelines, rather than absolutes. This information is open for interpretation, and you must experiment to find out what works best for you.
So in summary, don;t get discouraged when people tell you to just send it out; they're just trying to help you get some direction so that you know which way to move once you do start to hone on your own...
Oh, and I'm just rambling..feel free to disregard everything I said, but I'm just speaking from experience... :)
DannyMcO, I understand your desire for a path forward. I felt the same and I will tell you the path I am on and you can decide if you like it for yourself or not! (Everyone likes a slightly different path it seems!)
1.) Purchase razor and love the straight shave!
2.) Realize I like the old ones and want to be able to bring them back to life in the future
3.) Get a second cheap razor that shaves... This one is critical to my plan! I don't really care for this razor but It is of shave quality and it is something I can compare the items I learn to hone on with! (Whippeddog.com sight unseen deal is by far the most cost effective method I have found to get this second razor!)
4.) Decide on a good set of hones to try. I went the whipped dog method on this and spent under 100 dollars to get the small set of Nortons and a 12K Chinese. They are all small, but they will help me get a feel for things and let me ruin a couple of them while learning without feeling like I completely drained my wallet!
5.) Buy some junk razors and learn!
6.) Buy some nicer razors and get them where you like them!
Having two razors at first allows you the freedom to work on a problem with one while keeping shaving. You may find a finisher stone will get the razor you have up to par, but you really will still want something to compare your work to.
That's my plan, and I am in step 6 now! I'm pretty happy as I have been able to fix nicks in my daily shavers and now I am bringing some nice pieces back to life!
@LegalBegal - already planned on attending.
@BobH - thanks, the link is very helpful. As much as I'd like to say it's easy to find stuff here on SRP, sorting through the noise in search results isn't something I'm familiar enough with the threads here to do easily. I appreciate your legwork in helping me find the right thread.
@jpcwon - thanks, I get it. I'm a headhunter by day and 30 year guitarist by evening, and routinely get "magic bullet" questions from people I know like "How do I avoid giving my compensation in an interview?" and "What's the best scale to use?" that do not have a short answer.
I have no aversion to sending out the razor to be honed (and will probably go to NY Shaving Co today for that reason), but want to start the learning ASAP so that I can become self-sufficient in the shortest time possible.
Hi Dan,
There are a few reasons why you received the advice given above. First, it is generally not a great idea to do one's own honing when starting out. Jpcwon's experience is a great example as is my own. I was one of the many who did not get a truly shave-ready edge for far too long. I shaved off a factory edge, and then when that went horribly wrong I tried honing it myself without the benefit of all the info here on SRP (which I didn't discover until later). It wasn't until I dinged my razor on the tap and sent it out to have the chip repaired that I realized what a truly shave-ready razor feels like.
The problem with that approach (honing yourself when starting out) is that everyone encounters problems/issues/challenges etc when starting out. And there are a lot of variables involved here: if you have a harsh/bad shave is your blade to blame? Or what about your face prep, lather, etc. By always sending your blade out to be honed by a pro, you eliminate one of the variables (is your blade to blame) and, IMHO just as importantly for someone who wants to learn to hone, you will get a good idea of what a truly shave-ready blade feels like. That is a *great* help in evaluating your efforts at honing.
So you could definitely invest in some hones and give it a shot. But experience has proven for a lot of us that that isn't necessarily the best path to take when starting out. And I mean absolutely no disrespect by that: we have all been there.
The suggestion of attending a meetup or finding a local mentor is an excellent one. If you have someone hands-on to show you how to hone, your path to becoming a honemeister will be considerably shortened. :)
So hang in there, and keep reading stuff here at SRP. All the info you need is buried in here somewhere. And if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to post them or send me a PM and I'll help if I can.
No kiddin'!! I'm a drummer who went to Berklee in Boston...been playing for almost 30 years myself!!Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyMcO
I recently bought a Fender Strat and am currently teaching myself how to play guitar...it's a LOT of fun, but like honing it can be frustrating at times. I have learned that persistence is key though, and the end result is well worth it!
I am approaching guitar a lot like honing...asking questions to friends and watching youtube vids. I am learning to accept the fact that "Rome wasn't built in a day", and that I need to be patient.. :)
--Thread Hijack Over--
Two pics of the offending nick from under an 8x linen tester. Had to move it around quite a bit to get them visible at all - leading me to wonder if they are technically qualified as 'nicks' to begin with...?
Attachment 117288
Attachment 117289
Danny
I am by no means an expert at honing but that "nick" does not look like it would be a huge problem to hone out. If it is not biting you when you shave you could try giving it a good stropping on leather for 100 or so laps and see what happens.
Bob
I had a similar nick in my Dovo, actually. I spent some time on my Naniwa 1k, and was able to remove enough metal to make it go away. I would say that doing 4-5 sets of 40 circles in both directions on a 1k should remove it..maybe even 2-3 sets..
And now, the dreaded "YMMV" ;)
Danny, when you strop it, does this ding in the blade leave scratches on the leather? If not, you might be okay to CAREFULLY use it until Sunday. We can easily fix this at the meetup on Sunday and show you a bit about maintaining your blades. My guess is that you hit this gently on the faucet or even closed it on the scales, but it does not look catastrophic at any rate. We can get you sorted very quickly!
Hey Danny
I'm real new myself so you may not want to go by me but I agree I think you should send it out to someone and get it back real fast! It will be in perfect condition and you don't have to go through those hassles. If you do choose to go the honing route yourself there are tons of videos on this site and on YouTube that show you how to do it step by step. Ignore the snarky responses- I do. It's aggravating and frustrating but whatever...
Just my 2 cents for what its worth!
How I learnt to hone after studying everything I could find on the internet about razor honing.
1. Hit razor on tap to dent the edge (unintentionally I should add).
2. research hones and grit levels to find what I would need to look for.
3. Bought hones according to grit rather than brand/quality.
4. Honed razor on a 1k with a willingness to destroy it if that's what it took, as I had never had a decent shave from it anyway. Kept this up until nick was no longer visible.
5. Managed to get razor about as sharp as my good knives after getting frustrated with getting a decent edge, only to lose it on the next grit stage.
6. Got a rough shave from razor, but a lot smoother than I had ever had from it before. Could have gotten the same from my decent knives though.
7. Went back to hones and tried again. Results the same.
8. Spoke to a member of SRP via PM. Found that my finest hone, a double sided 3k/8k was incorrectly marked. I had been shaving off of a 3k edge. Also the the reason why the edge was coming good before getting worse.
9. Found the shave off an 8k hone to be smoother, but still had higher expectations of shaving sharp.
10. Bought a C12k from OS. Paid too much. Found out I had to lap it and how to go about it prior to it's arrival. Practiced lapping on my other hones, never having done that before either.
11. Re-hone razor with a bit more care on freshly lapped hones. Finally started getting a decent learners shave from razor.
12. Recieved C12k and lapped it over several pain-staking hours.
13. Shave vastly inproved after touch up on C12k.
14. Had another SRP member offer to drop over to show me honing technique. Found to be reasonable, but some pointers required.
15. Later sent razor off to be checked by someone better than me, as it wasn't coming good anymore. Some rust on edge that was honed out and returned with a professional honing job.
16 Realisation that I have been like a hammer in my honing technique where a feather was required. This was my new baseline and a couple of years later, I'm still not there yet.
Lessons learnt: The learning process leaps ahead when you have someone show you, rather than tell you, what you need to know.
Mick
Dang. The razor is at NY Shaving Co awaiting sharpening...though I am OK leaving it there for now. Was able to pick up a 4 vintage razors there that were sitting on display in an old sterilizer, most notably a Torrey "992"; John (NYSCo owner) hadn't planned on selling them, but I made a stupidly aggressive impulse offer, so am now waiting for 5 razors to come back instead of just my original Dovo.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegalBeagle
RAD has progressed beyond the incubation stage...
Yep... That happens pretty quickly! Buy a straight to try and save money and end up spending a bit on a new hobby!Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyMcO
Amen brother! I'm sure Danny will pick enough to thoroughly scramble his brain at the meet. He thinks he has RAD & is opening his self up to HAD...I forsee deep injuries to the bank account.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickR
Danny,
You are wanting to learn to hone. Go ahead and order up a DMT8C diamond plate for lapping, Naniwa Chosera 1K, Norton 4/8K or Naniwa 3/8K, and a Naniwa 12K so that they will be in the mail when you return from the meet. You think you want to learn to hone now...wait until after the meet! The guys at the meet will make it look easy & you will be hooked for sure saying "I can do that, no problem". This is where the frustrations just begin on the journey to getting proficient at honing and one that you will never really quit learning on.
Probably one of the few here who's gramps shaved with a straight(he was born in the 1870's), from reading about those times I've found while most males had their own razors, most of them went to the barbers for a shave.
If you're going to use a straight everyday it's best to have more than one, or even easier and cheaper a Parker-like Shavette to use if your straight goes dull.
