Straight Razor's single greatest advantage over DE's or modern day disposables?

I start this thread to solicit from this forum what is considered to be the single greatest advantage of a SR over any other shaving method. We have heard the cost savings (realized by few on this forum, even after five years or more) to less irritation. But what is the single greatest advantage? Is it the nostalgia, the manual dexterity, the satisfaction of maintaining the ultimate sharpness? Here are my observations to which you are invited to take exception.

1. The single greatest advantage of the SR over any conventional, modern blade is free angle variation during the shave. This is the ability, especially with the full hollow grind 5/8 inch or wider blades to vary the incidence angle from less than 5 - 35 degrees or more for any location on the face. All commercial DE's and multi-blade disposables utilize a fix angle that is fine for most, but not all areas of the face.

2. The second greatest advantage for the SR over any conventional, modern blade is variable sharpness. There is such a thing as too sharp! If you don't believe me then try a Feather Super and be humbled. The SR allows the experienced user to optimize sharpness for cutting beard stubble without severing surface anomalies.

Yes, there are many other advantages that I could list here; however, for me the variability of angle is the single biggest reason for less irritation, against the grain potential, and smoothness afforded only by a straight.

What are your thoughts?

For me its all about smoothness, a properly dialed in razor will cut whiskers without you realizing its happening, definately something not achievable with other shaving methods.

When your not shaving everyday a "normal" razor will clog up all the time, a straight wont!
And they look better! :)

I'll be honest;
There's nothing else in the realm of 'cool factor' quite like it!
:rock:

Now, I have only been at the straight razor game for a matter of months, but for me the greatest advantage is the tactile pleasure I get from the whole experience. I can get a very good shave from 2 passes with my Merkur DE, but there are a multitude of things that it cannot provide, beyond simply cutting the stubble on my face. Let me elaborate-

Disposable razors are indicative of a disposable mindset, and a disposable culture. Most men think of shaving the way they think about doing laundry or taking out the trash, just a 5 minute chore that is tolerated but not savored. Furthermore, I am realizing more and more that many of the men on this forum are the type that can build things, repair things, maintain things, rather than the type to just buy something, use it once, and throw it away. We strive for quality, and workmanship. We enjoy the satisfaction of doing things the proper way instead of the convenient way. You care for a razor, sometimes repair it, sometimes modify it and elevate it to a work of art. This aspect of SR shaving is directly related to the enjoyment of the process. It is also a skill that must be practiced, evaluated, modified, honed (so to speak), and improved over many years. This is something for which few in the general public have either the aptitude or inclination. Learning the skills required to shave one's face with a potentially dangerous piece of metal just adds to the fun. Finally, there is a zen-like quality to it- you clear your mind and take the time to use luxurious and often expensive products and prepare your skin before taking an elegant instrument (that likely costs as much a year's supply of mach 14 razors) to it and then apply more nice-smelling stuff...you get the point. Basically I'm saying that all these aspects of SR shaving add up to a total tactile experience that cannot be matched by any other method.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gammaray

2. The second greatest advantage for the SR over any conventional, modern blade is variable sharpness. There is such a thing as too sharp! If you don't believe me then try a Feather Super and be humbled. The SR allows the experienced user to optimize sharpness for cutting beard stubble without severing surface anomalies.

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Never found a feather blade shaves me closer than a straight so I'd say too sharp is better explained as inadequately polished or a less refined edge. The straight has the advantage that it can be honed/polished & stropped more than any DE blade. A machine made blade is not so fine & compensated for with coatings to hide that fact. The angle thing plays a part tho. Even a well honed straight will not be comfortable at too high an angle.

Well said RMarsh, especially for someone who is new to the SR culture. There is definitely something tactically more satisfying with a SR shave over any conventional method.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Never found a feather blade shaves me closer than a straight so I'd say too sharp is better explained as inadequately polished or a less refined edge. The straight has the advantage that it can be honed/polished & stropped more than any DE blade. A machine made blade is not so fine & compensated for with coatings to hide that fact. The angle thing plays a part tho. Even a well honed straight will not be comfortable at too high an angle.

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You have made my point. A SR can be dialed in to the perfect sharpness level without irritation or injury. However, I must ask if you have actually used a SUPER Feather brand SR disposable? If you have, then I am certain you would concur with my statement that there is such a thing as too sharp for shaving. Other Super users on this forum will vouch for that statement.

:tu

Am poor,cannot afford to buy even the cheapest dispos.:(

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Originally Posted by Gammaray

However, I must ask if you have actually used a SUPER Feather brand SR disposable? If you have, then I am certain you would concur with my statement that there is such a thing as too sharp for shaving. Other Super users on this forum will vouch for that statement.
:tu

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I use Supers quite often and disagree completely with your assertion that they're too sharp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gammaray

However, I must ask if you have actually used a SUPER Feather brand SR disposable? If you have, then I am certain you would concur with my statement that there is such a thing as too sharp for shaving.

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Yeah I had this same discussion with another guy & even tried it in a Merkur slant. I couldn't tell any difference from my Iwasaki as far as closeness went.

While I don't know the exact reason for it, I can say that my complexion improved after I started using a straight. Could be the brush and soap, could just be the change from shave goop to shave soap, could be the razor... I don't know, but I was happy for it.

For me the greatest advantage, is the shave quality and how it leaves the skin. I share regularjoe's sentiment with regards to complexion improvement . In comparison to a DE, I find that a straight razor is more forgiving on the skin. Hardly any nicks, bumps and no irritation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by regularjoe

While I don't know the exact reason for it, I can say that my complexion improved after I started using a straight. Could be the brush and soap, could just be the change from shave goop to shave soap, could be the razor... I don't know, but I was happy for it.

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Yup. Agree with this.

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Originally Posted by Lemur

When your not shaving everyday a "normal" razor will clog up all the time, a straight wont!
And they look better! :)

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Absolutely right! This winter i took the opportunity to grow a full beard for the first time in my life. A few weeks ago when I decided to take it off, I simply took it off (via Wade & Butcher).

http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...95297892-n.jpg
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...73619408-n.jpg
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...28014012-n.jpg

Try THAT with a disposable.:tu
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...58726207-n.jpg

For me its mainly the angle at which the hair is cut. Maybe my skin is just strange but with DE's and modern crap, I ALWAYS get some sort of irritation and ingrown hairs when the hair starts to grow back. Not so with straights though, its as if the angle the hair is cut is one which does not agitate the skin when the hair starts to grow back.

Theres so much more to straights though. Just knowing that you're shaving with an incredibly sharp, switch blade looking thing that, it big enough, could be used as a weapon, is awesome! Also, there's a lot of history to the art. Shaving with a straight goes back hundreds of years. Not only that, but if you're shaving with a vintage razor, you could be shaving with something that was used during WWI, how amazing is that? Then their's the relaxation aspect to it as RMarsh brought up. I look forward to shaving with a straight, its really exciting for me and very relaxing; my mind isn't wandering or distracted, I'm calmly focused in the present moment. Its also a skill, an art; not every body can do it and it takes practice and precision (and courage as some non-straights guys have pointed out.) Lastly, call me feminine but I'm a sucker for all the accesories that come with straights: collecting different kinds of razors, using European shave creams and moisturizers, and trying different mugs, soaps, and brushes. No clue why the majority of males don't use straights, no razor is better in my opinion.

OK, I'm new around here. I'm not even 100% sure why I'm getting into this. It's not just the quality of the shave - with a Slant DE or a OCMM SE I can regularly get a pretty much perfect shave. It's not just the cost, either one of those two saftey razors can be had for $25 and a 40 cent blade lasts me over a week. Plus let's face it, I'm doomed to contract a brand new kind of RAD. I wouldn't be bothering if those were the only reasons. A couple of people have touched on the feeling you get shaving and maintaining a straight. It's cool. It's bad. It gives a sense of accomplishment. It instills confidence. It's a connection with the past. For me it's more along those lines.

IMHO The closest and Smoothest shave is from a SR. Period. Thats the biggest advantage

There are two sides to every story so if you are going to talk about the advantages of a straight you also need to consider the disadvantages.

So the question is, is the added labor and time and learning curve (among other things) worth the total cost versus the convenience of the modern alternative and it's total cost?

I already know the answer in these parts however in the real world........

I'm sorry but Mr Gillette made me write this post.

Pro:fun to use
Con:not as sharp

I agree that a blade can be too sharp. Feathers are too sharp (IMO) but Astras are perfect for me and are still sharper than a straight.

I use both but straight shaving is more of a hobby for me.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

There are two sides to every story so if you are going to talk about the advantages of a straight you also need to consider the disadvantages.

So the question is, is the added labor and time and learning curve (among other things) worth the total cost versus the convenience of the modern alternative and it's total cost?

I already know the answer in these parts however in the real world........

I'm sorry but Mr Gillette made me write this post.

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Well said. Most of us who have been shaving for more than 35 years must admit that there is more time and care required of a SR shave. So there must be something very special about this experience to motivate us to invest the time and energy demanded of this hobby. It must be the experience combined with the treasured result of a baby-smooth shave. Chicks dig it too.

;)

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Originally Posted by Tierdaen

I use Supers quite often and disagree completely with your assertion that they're too sharp.

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My experience is that the SUPERS are too sharp to shave with as quickly as a hand sharpened SR. I would certainly not recommend them for any newbie - what a blood bath. I am much more relaxed with my SR than when I am using my Japanese style Feather SR with a brand new SUPER installed. I have great respect for that blade. I have also used Feather scalpels and have the privilege of using an electron microscope to confirm that these are the sharpest blades you will ever bring to your face. It takes almost a threefold increase in magnification to see the edge when compared to any straight that I have seen personally or the ones on this forum (with micron magnification noted). Nevertheless, I cannot argue with your anecdotal experience, which may indeed differ from my own.

Yeah, the hobby aspect of it is a major part of it for me. For decades I used canned goo and cartridges. I got into wetshaving at first to save money. Then I contracted several shaving related acquisition disorders....... And then, shaving gradually went from being a chore, to being a hobby. Adding straights to the equation is just going to make it more enjoyable.

It doesn't clog and it cuts straight lines precisely.

Do not really think a straight has any advantage over an open comb Gillett and a feather blade.
I think the main allure is doing something our ancesters did,just turned 65 so am talking to a younger crowd,the connected generation,the high teckies.I used to be one,today I fiddle with my blades and stones to get away from that (IMO) crap.
I grow all my own vegies,I compost everything and raise worms that I use to catch fish to run thru my little smokehouse.
I still roll my own cigs (by hand) like my dad did.Am a retro guy,in my Heart I always was one.
The blade and brush are great things for the young to explore,a connection to the past that should never be forgotten.
If I live long enough,say to about 90,I will most likly be 100% retro and back in Diapers like I started out:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RMarsh

Now, I have only been at the straight razor game for a matter of months, but for me the greatest advantage is the tactile pleasure I get from the whole experience. I can get a very good shave from 2 passes with my Merkur DE, but there are a multitude of things that it cannot provide, beyond simply cutting the stubble on my face. Let me elaborate-

Disposable razors are indicative of a disposable mindset, and a disposable culture. Most men think of shaving the way they think about doing laundry or taking out the trash, just a 5 minute chore that is tolerated but not savored. Furthermore, I am realizing more and more that many of the men on this forum are the type that can build things, repair things, maintain things, rather than the type to just buy something, use it once, and throw it away. We strive for quality, and workmanship. We enjoy the satisfaction of doing things the proper way instead of the convenient way. You care for a razor, sometimes repair it, sometimes modify it and elevate it to a work of art. This aspect of SR shaving is directly related to the enjoyment of the process. It is also a skill that must be practiced, evaluated, modified, honed (so to speak), and improved over many years. This is something for which few in the general public have either the aptitude or inclination. Learning the skills required to shave one's face with a potentially dangerous piece of metal just adds to the fun. Finally, there is a zen-like quality to it- you clear your mind and take the time to use luxurious and often expensive products and prepare your skin before taking an elegant instrument (that likely costs as much a year's supply of mach 14 razors) to it and then apply more nice-smelling stuff...you get the point. Basically I'm saying that all these aspects of SR shaving add up to a total tactile experience that cannot be matched by any other method.

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I second that emotion!

Nothing like RELAXING at the beginning of what you know will be a hectic day with a straight shave. Then throughout the day reminiscing by running your fingers over your still smooth face. Not to mention looking at the heathens you work with that have two to three day growth who think that's "Manly." IMHO

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Originally Posted by velocityboy

Yup. Agree with this.



Absolutely right! This winter i took the opportunity to grow a full beard for the first time in my life. A few weeks ago when I decided to take it off, I simply took it off (via Wade & Butcher).

http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...95297892-n.jpg
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...73619408-n.jpg
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...28014012-n.jpg

Try THAT with a disposable.:tu
http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...58726207-n.jpg

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You'd need a bag full of disposables, and a case of styptic pencils too!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gammaray

My experience is that the SUPERS are too sharp to shave with as quickly as a hand sharpened SR. I would certainly not recommend them for any newbie - what a blood bath. I am much more relaxed with my SR than when I am using my Japanese style Feather SR with a brand new SUPER installed. I have great respect for that blade. I have also used Feather scalpels and have the privilege of using an electron microscope to confirm that these are the sharpest blades you will ever bring to your face. It takes almost a threefold increase in magnification to see the edge when compared to any straight that I have seen personally or the ones on this forum (with micron magnification noted). Nevertheless, I cannot argue with your anecdotal experience, which may indeed differ from my own.

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So let's get technical then.. Since you have SEM experience

In micron size what are the "Too Sharp" edges at ???

What micron size have you found the edge to become "Face Friendly"

What micron size makes the edge "Harsh"

Is this micron size universal so at 2 microns the shave is good but at 1 it is too sharp, or is this a moving target, that depends on the steel the grind the finish...


What is the difference in microns between a DE and a SR

Perhaps there is something more to it


:hmmm:


I know :OT but you broached the subject

I too would have to say that the main thing that drew me in to the world of straight razor shaving was initially the 'cool' factor.
But once I got started, this little 'hobby' of mine has completely changed the direction of my life. After I started collecting razors and doing little bits of restoration on them I realized how much I enjoyed working with tools, power tools, etc. At the time I was studying Commerce and on my way to getting a degree which I really wasn't finding very interesting and did not really feel like I had much purpose in life. I've since made a lot of radical changes to my life plan and am now studying a pre-apprenticeship in Engineering Studies (Fitting and Machining) while I'm also taking a weekend course in Blacksmithing, and for the first time in my life I'm actually looking forward to going to school because I'm learning about things that I find useful and interesting and I can't wait to start working also. It is likely that I wouldn't have made this realization were it not for this forum so I am eternally grateful to everyone on here and Lynn for starting up SRP in the first place.

I seem to have gotten off topic now but yeah, a big advantage of straight razors for me is that it's actually fun to shave now instead of just being something I have to do.

I'm never without a weapon, in the bathroom.:jedi:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gammaray

My experience is that the SUPERS are too sharp to shave with as quickly as a hand sharpened SR. I would certainly not recommend them for any newbie - what a blood bath. I am much more relaxed with my SR than when I am using my Japanese style Feather SR with a brand new SUPER installed. I have great respect for that blade. I have also used Feather scalpels and have the privilege of using an electron microscope to confirm that these are the sharpest blades you will ever bring to your face. It takes almost a threefold increase in magnification to see the edge when compared to any straight that I have seen personally or the ones on this forum (with micron magnification noted). Nevertheless, I cannot argue with your anecdotal experience, which may indeed differ from my own.

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Your post may not have been intended to come across as prickish as it does, but try not to use dismissive language when someone disagrees with your assertions that one with experience would certainly agree with you. As much as I disagree with Glen about many of his posts regarding science and especially engineers, he raises the useful question of where your supposed knowledge is justifiably translated into absolute statements of "too sharp" and the assertion that everyone agrees. I found the Supers to be a great forgiving shave, and they rescued my Feather from the bin (well, probably bst forum...) when I thought the standard Pro blades were unpleasant to use.

Referring to my personal opinion as "anecdotal" is a well-known rhetorical strategy to disparage opinions as "poor evidence" (even when sidestepping the word evidence) Your statements are not evidence and I was not bringing forward, nor claiming to bring forward evidence. Saying you play with SEM does not turn your "too sharp" statement into fact, nor does it count as evidence that could discredit someone's "anecdotal experience".

A straight razor turned a required task that I hated, shaving, into a journey that I now love & look forward to each day.
On this journey of the past 2 years, a straight razor has educated me on how to hone/sharpen edged equipment, other than razors.
I have learned to make things with my hands (scales).
A straight razor brought me to this forum, where I have met, via the internet & in person, people who are now my friends.
A straight razor that I now use, was used by my grandfathers going back to the 1820's. I feel a connection.

I don't really understand the mechanics of one instrument's sharpness versus another's; not at this point in my journey.

I just know that a straight razor has made a big difference in my simple life. :shrug:

I've shaved quite a bit with Merkur slants and Feather blades. Now if these Feather supers you refer to are the folding razor variety I have no experience with them at all. With the Feather DE all I can say is they are very nice blades IME. Matter of fact, they are my go to DE blade, when I do use one, since I have a stash rat holed.

As to the difference between straight razor shavers and DE shavers ........ straight razor shavers are cool and they can kick your ass .......... ;)