Hello All,
i've read that TI are uniquely qualified to take care of heavier beards. is this really so or does technique trump equipment? are there specific razors that do a better job on coarser beards?
thanks
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Hello All,
i've read that TI are uniquely qualified to take care of heavier beards. is this really so or does technique trump equipment? are there specific razors that do a better job on coarser beards?
thanks
Any half hollow or wedge should handle tough stubble without any problems. Hollow ground blades may flex especially if their sharpness isn't up to snuff. Being a fortunate person with medium growth, I've experienced the full range of grinds.
They're not particularly well suited for heavy beards, but neither are they particularly ill-suited. Prep and technique and experience has a *lot* to do with it. Some guys with heavy beards prefer larger razors or heavier grinds, some don't care one way or another. Really thin full-hollow blades are prone to flexing, though with experience this becomes much less of an issue. I've got a pretty heavy beard and prefer the little full hollow 5/8 razors myself though I get good shaves from the big heavy razors too.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloverfast2
Sharp ones. Mind you, TI's are very well suited for that. I don't want to sound down on TI, they make truly great razors, right up there with the best razors ever made. I've got a fair number of them. They take a very keen edge and do a good job of keeping it over many shaves. But that's good for every beard, not just heavy ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloverfast2
TI's are good razors and take a good edge - they make some heavier/stiffer razors that may be considered by some to be better on heavier beards. In particular, they make some "flatback" special edition razors and the less expensive 1/2 hollow "le Gnome" line that some people with heavier beards (myself included) prefer.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloverfast2
My only TI is a full hollow 6/8 Sheffield steel that gets through my dense, coarse beard very well - but I have other razors that shave just as well.
There are several threads around discussing what razors may be more or less suited to heavier beards - if you look for them, you'll get a sense of what people's views are on the subject.
I think there's a general agreement that a slightly larger (6/8 and above) and/or heavier grind (1/2, 1/4, full wedge) is helpful, especially at the start. (mparker and I have debated this pont on a couple of threads).
iHowever, while my personal preference is for a heavier/stiffer razor, I agree completely with mparker that a properly sharpened razor of any size or grind, combined with proper shaving technique, can give you a good shave.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloverfast2
If you're just starting out and are having trouble getting good shaves with a well-sharpened full hollow 5/8, you might want to try a TI "le Gnome" in either 5/8 or 6/8 (however, any 1/2 hollow in 5/8 or 6/8 will do - I have a very plain Holland 5/8, 1/2 hollow that I got for $35 shave-ready that is one of my best shavers). Or you could try a stainless steel razor in 5/8 (SS is a little stiffer than carbon steel).
However, no razor - regardless of size or grind will shave worth a damn if its not sharp, you haven't prepped your beard properly and don't have good shaving technique.
Good luck.
I don't have a TI so I can't give you any advice regarding them.
I do, however, have a heavy and coarse beard. As I'm learning to use a straight razor I can tell you that prep and technique are worth more to your shave than the actual razor. The more experienced you have with straights the better the shave will be.
I'll also add that for guys like us the straight razor is far and away the best method for shaving there is. :)
Thanks for the responses. i'm looking at the TI Gnome from Classic Shaving as it is 1/2 hollow. do you recommend their sharpening srvc. or to send it SRP's Lynn. i remember reading they might be one in the same. i'm choosing this route as it seems practical. starting w/ a razor that's "easier" for newbies and has the attributes helpful to a heavy beard.
Yes same service from the same guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by carloverfast2
Well, my favorite subject for a post. I say poppycock to the guys that think you need a big razor for a heavy beard and what is the proof of my claim. very simple, history. Unless you want to accept the fact that millions of men settled for bad and uncomfortable shaves through history.
The deal is that in the early 1800s and before big meat choppers were all that were available. As the 20th century approached manufacturers were using various hollow grinds and realized that they could make a hollow grind way smaller than the meatchopper and still do the same job equally as well. I think a wedge is easier to make than a hollow grind so it wasn't ease of manufacture that made the hollow grind king. The fact is that once the hollow grinds became prevalent most men used them and used the 5/8s which was the most popular size with the 6/8s way behind. If men with tough beards couldn't get a good shave with a 5/8 or 6/8 hollow grind you'd think they would have demanded more larger sizes and more wedges but they didn't. I remember when I was a kid and barbers still used razors for trimming when you got a haircut and they still gave shaves barbers used mostly 5/8s razors and I remember my barber had several soaking in disinfectant and none were 7/8s or 8/8s. Some older guys preferred the wedge which is why Pearlduck came up with the Satin Wedge late in the game because barbers, especially the older guys preferred them and the Satin Wedge though techically is a wedge its mighty small for a wedge. You would think barbers would have an assortment of sizes and grinds for all beard types if beard types needed differeing grinds or sizes. But this wasn't the case.
So, I've said it before and I'll say it again, everyone should try all grinds and all sizes and decide which you prefer based on style, handling, shave characteristics and personal preference and then concentrate on your favorites but if you decide early on that you just can't possibly get a good comfortable shave with a 4/8s or 5/8s or a hollow grind thats just the wrong reason to make that decision.
And now I hear the guys in the big razor club coming after me so I better hide!
Though I've got my share of them, I'm not a member of the big razor club - I'm quite fond of my little 5/8s. However, I wonder if various modern factors such as better nutrition and widespread use of hormonal supplements in our foodstock might not render this theory somewhat suspect? We hit puberty much earlier than them, and we're quite a bit taller, after all. We may well have tougher beards on average than our ancestors.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Why not - look at the current state of the market for shaving equipment/supplies :DQuote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
I think that if you "can't" get a good shave with a full hollow 5/8, there's something wrong (something wrong with the razor, not honed/stropped properly, beard prep, shaving technique, etc.). More important, if there's something wrong with any of these, you're going to have problems regardless of what type of razor your using.
That doesn't mean that everyone is happy with or prefers the way a full hollow 5/8 shaves. Some people like a wedgier grind, some people like a bigger razor - or some combination thereof.
I think that moving from a 5/8 full hollow to a 6/8 full hollow or a heavier grind in 5/8 or 6/8 can help newbies (especially those with heavy beards) - especially at first. However, if after a few months, you can't get a decent shave with a full hollow 5/8, you should examine whether there's anything you should be doing differently.
I've only been at this for 2.5 months now - initially, I couldn't get a great shave with a full hollow 5/8 and went to heavier grinds and 6/8 razors. This helped me quite a bit - but I knew my technique and sharpening/stropping abilities were improving when I COULD get a good shave with my lighter 5/8 razors. I still prefer 6/8 razors and heavier 5/8 and 6/8 razors, but that's just preference. So try different sizes and grinds, but you should revisit your smaller, lighter razors periodically as they are useful tools to evaluate the progress of the varous skills needed to get a good straight shave.
Smart, as they're armed with large, sharp objects.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
Here's my theory about thebigspendur's theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
I don't question anything he's said here. But there's one thing missing in this history. The invention of the safety razor, and its swift ascendancy during World War I, when a whole generation of men used them in the trenches. The whole thing about the DE was that a man could shave himself with unprecedented ease. But the barbershop shave didn't go away for a couple more generations at least. Straight razors made in the 20th century have mostly been destined for barbers' use. These guys are professionals. As many a newbie on this site has noted, a nice heavy wedge is a lot easier to use successfully when you're an unskilled beginner. As many a pro (like mparker and the bigspendur) has noted, on the other hand, once you really know what you're doing you can get just as good a shave from a 5/8 extra hollow as from a 7/8 wedge – and the hollow one's more maneuverable and arguably more precise. A good deal of skill is key, though, as is a very sharp, expertly honed hollow razor. Wedges are more forgiving on both counts.
So there you go: wedges were still popular when men were still, in significant numbers, giving themselves straight-razor shaves. Remember, these guys weren't hobbyists like us, spending half their waking hours pondering the art of the shave. We're nostalgic for the days when fathers taughts sons how to shave, but in all likelihood you can learn much more from Randy, Lynn, Joe, and others on this site than guys back then could learn from their dads. Prep, technique, razor maintenance etc. were probably pretty hit and miss, most honing done by someone else; and in terms of overall skill probably most guys then just weren't as good at straight-shaving as mparker and bigspendur are now. So the wedge grind endured through the 19th century.
Once the safety razor took over the market for self-shaving, and straight razors became mostly professional instruments, it was perfectly natural that smaller hollow grinds would come to dominate. They're much easier to hone (and if you're shaving 30 faces a day you have to be able to do your own honing); they're easier to manuever precisely, and they give a lot of feedback.
Just a theory.
I dunno. The barber's remained professionally trained throughout this period yet they transitioned from heavy to light razors as well. My old W&B "Barber's Use" is an 8/8 near-wedge. My somewhat newer W&B "Barber's Rattler" is a 7/8 half hollow. My 20th century Clauss "Barber's Special" is a 5/8 full hollow.
It's quite possible that it was the development of better metallurgy (harder and less brittle steel) and the discovery of better honing technologies (ceramic hones, chrome oxide) led to the sort of really sharp edges that allow the little full-hollow razors to shine, which in turn led to their wholescale adoption.
One clarification to the previous poster: I am not an expert, merely someone who has been recently smacked with a cluebat on this issue. I argued for months that prep and technique weren't enough, that big razors and big grinds were necessary for shaving tough beards. I was chagrined recently to discover that I was wrong, and that prep and technique were in fact the key after all.
Still don't like the Feather though. I'm still keeping it figuring that maybe one day it'll all become clear. Maybe.
Mparker, I take your point about metallurgy, but I wonder if it really contradicts my theory. I mean, better metallurgy let hollows really shine, but as you and others have attested, you've got to be pretty good to use them effectively. The fact that straight-shaving was moving more and more into the hands of professionals in the 20th century could still have been a necessary condition for their ascendancy over the wedge.
Still pushin' my theory.
p.s. you're an expert as far as I'm concerned, because early on you gave me exactly the right tip to get me out of each impasse I was in.
Even though the safety razor was being used in ever increasing numbers as the 20th century progressed, like everything else it was the young guys who jumped on the bandwagon right away. Just like the change from pocketwatches to wristwatches Most older guys remained with the straights and don't forget straights were still being made in large quantities through the period of the second world war. It was almost the 1950s when they really started to stop production and even many kept up into the late 1960s though usage was almost nil by then.
And true the wedge was more time consuming to hone but you could shave alot more people inbetween honings with one and many older barbers did prefer them.
I think the key point here is people's mindset just like Mr Gillette was able to convince people to switch to his razor because it was the modern way to shave it the same with straights. The wedge is just old fashioned while the double hollow grind was the new fangled way to do things but hey some guys still prefer to drive a 57 chevy to an 07 one and some women prefer to drag their clothes outside and boil them and beat them with a stick and wring them out by hand and hand em up to dry rather than throw them in the electric washer and dryer. They would tell you the same things we do about shaving. Everything is relative. And when I find that woman I'll let you know who she is!