A Rare Find?

I saw this piece and just had to have it for my collection. Call me weak but I don't think I'll come across too many double bladed razors.
The history is interesting as it was built in England but made its way to France. Specifically to the Marquis de Goulaime of the Castle Goulaine. The castle ( now a chateau) was started around the year 970 or so and is located in the Loire valley presided over by the 11th Marquis. He is still in the wine making business and is considered the oldest business in Europe at 1000 yrs. You can buy his wines today.
Iron Chef Bobby Flay credits this family's chef as the creator of the famous Beurre Blanc sauce.
I also got a signed letter of authentication documenting the razor. I'm not sure how authentic the letter is but I think it's neat. I'm sure I can verify it if I choose to.
But I think it's a neat piece. One interesting thing is the wedge is leather. Each blade sinks into it a bit holding it in place.
The scales are bone with hand painted design matching one of the blades which also shows the anchor and scrolls. The other blade is marked Plymouth in its etch.

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Awesome piece, and your right it would be a great centerpiece for your collection(till you find the next amazing find)
Respectfully
Christian

I've seen a few double bladed razors in that style but never had one. All of those I've seen were in rough shape. IIRC Sham has one and had it on the bay not long ago...... IIRC. Anyway, yours is museum quality and truly a work of art. Great piece you've got there and I can see why you couldn't resist.

I saved a lot of pictures of these "papillon" razors, and from the ones ive seen this one is in great condition, im no so sure about the letter being valid as i dont see any signature or notary stamp on it but nevertheless a great find, Enjoy!

WOW Amazing find!

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Originally Posted by Martin103

I saved a lot of pictures of these "papillon" razors, and from the ones ive seen this one is in great condition, im no so sure about the letter being valid as i dont see any signature or notary stamp on it but nevertheless a great find, Enjoy!

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I didn't include the bottom of the letter but it is signed but no notary stamp. From the collector it came from I am inclined to believe it is true. Regardless, I think it's a neat piece I probably won't come across too often. I'm not quibbling over details such as this although it would be nice. I'm sure I could follow up to check it.
I don't know about it being "museum quality" but for the age and what I believe rarity, it's a keeper.

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Originally Posted by mycarver

I didn't include the bottom of the letter but it is signed but no notary stamp. From the collector it came from I am inclined to believe it is true. Regardless, I think it's a neat piece I probably won't come across too often. I'm not quibbling over details such as this although it would be nice. I'm sure I could follow up to check it.
I don't know about it being "museum quality" but for the age and what I believe rarity, it's a keeper.

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Sure looks to me to be "Museum quality", they do come up from time to time on various auction sites mainly in Europe, thats if you want to start collecting them.

i thought i saw one on the bay before , but it was little - nothing left for blades .. yours is true wonderful , i dont think i could pass it up either if i had the cash-o-la .... i expext to see it in the SOTD now ...lol..

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Originally Posted by gooser

i thought i saw one on the bay before , but it was little - nothing left for blades .. yours is true wonderful , i dont think i could pass it up either if i had the cash-o-la .... i expext to see it in the SOTD now ...lol..

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Oh, don't tempt me. I'd love to try it just once but I'm hesitant to do anything with it for fear of ruining it. But maybe with some tape????
And think about it. I could shave twice as fast. Flip out both blades and I could do both cheeks at the same time! OK , the scales might get in the way,, but I'll figure something out.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Sure looks to me to be "Museum quality", they do come up from time to time on various auction sites mainly in Europe, thats if you want to start collecting them.

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Can't say I want to start collecting them. I'm happy with this one in my collection as a decent example. Never really looked for one, I just stumbled across it and it spoke to me. Don't they all though?

Puts all of my razors to shave. And I purchase 99.9% on aesthetics! Yet another razor I have to be on the lookout for!

That's fantastic!

But you realize that whatever you paid for it, this thing will cost you a fortune in the long run as you clearly now must go to France, visit the chateau, and sample some wine. While shaving.

:)

Very nice, lucky for you.

I've seen these come up every once in a while but never with pictures of how the blades actually lineup within the scales. Could you please take pictures from the top/bottom so we can see how the blades rest within the scales?

I wonder what kind of 7-day set you could make along this line? Sort of a Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor, ultra Swiss army knife version.

Anyway, very cool. Lucky you!

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I see these every once in a while, but agree, that this one looks to be in great condition compared to the norm. Nice piece!

A lovely razor and one I would love to own!

I have no doubt it was made in england, but probably by french prisoners during the Napoleonic wars. Some of those prisons were little more than large fenced-off fields, where the soldiers were just confined, but led their own existence inside. Sometimes entire villages were given 'parole' status and some frenchmen became minor celebrities.To make extra money they made all sorts of things to sell to the locals and visitors, among which - notably - were these 'papillon' style razors.

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The razor below is in the Thiers museum collection - they were also made by noted french manufacturers and were included in the catalogues of some of them:

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Razor, model guillotines, ships in bottles, etc, etc were made and sold. There is an interesting book by french prisoner Louis Garneray recording his nine years afloat on a british prison hulk (an old ship moored off the coast and serving as a prison). He was confined off Portsmouth from 1806. As well as the usual gamblers, bullies and thieves, he makes mention of artists, playwrights and those earning money from trading. He also tells of how battles were fought with razors tied to sticks!

Regards,
Neil

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I have no doubt it was made in england, but probably by french prisoners during the Napoleonic wars. ... To make extra money they made all sorts of things to sell to the locals and visitors, among which - notably - were these 'papillon' style razors.

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Do you have a source that definitively links papillon razors with French prisoners? That was what I had heard before, but something else I read said that was a misconception. I'm curious as to which is right, or to what degree of correctness.

I have it in a book somewhere - it's just a question of finding the book....

It's fairly obviously a french design, though.

The one in Thiers has many of the same design features. Lots of them have pictures of soldiers or sailors on them along with english words that are obviously mis-spelled ie not written by someone with english as a mother tongue.

Regards,
Neil

Here a few of the pics i saved of papillon razors i saved. Like Neil stated very french looking except for the Newcastle one.
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And a few more for good measure.
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Nice collection of pics, Martin!

They have reminded me of authentic french ones bearing words like 'Newcastle' and other places/countries on them, as well as spanish writing saying how excellent they are - anything for a sale! The uniform of napoleon III's soldiers dominates, as do the swirls and anchors.

Regards,
Neil

2years ago I've also got one with the sign "London" on the blade and "warranted cast steel" on the tang. English made? Who knows..

http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...-7950cr-tn.jpg

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Nice razor, Traskrom!

The patterning in the acid etching - the swirls and so on - are just like on the french ones. But who knows about the origin of the blades? If they were not made by prisoners of war, then they could have been 'donated' blades from locals - you see some, particularly the four blade models, where the blades are different styles, so they obviously were not made by whoever incorporated then into a pair of scales. The curious 'flattening' of the blade is apparent in many of them, so perhaps the french re-worked them and ground off the tails. Indeed, some must have been from their own razors. That they were allowed to keep their own razors is documented - there is an account of a 'duel' (there were prisoners who schooled other prisoners in the art of duelling - for a fee) between a man and a boy, the razors affixed to sticks. The boy lost. He also lost a finger, so not as damaging as a real duel! In another account, two teachers got heated up discussing the virtues of their two best pupils, who were summoned to duel with razors fixed to walking sticks! Luckily, neither was harmed.

The demand for goods made by napoleoninc prisoners was great. Some places held a twice-weekly fair which very many people travelled to from afar, it is said that in the early 1800s (the prisoners were released in 1814) on one day £225 was taken! An enormous amount of money. A single model of a working guillotine made from scrap bone is well documented to have sold for £40, so it is no wonder that some of these fine craftsmen made their fortune while imprisoned! This applies particularly to straw covered boxes. The strands of straw were dyed and woven into intricate patterns over the shell of a thin pine box. Some prisoners began buying straw wholesale from local farmers, and these individuals got very rich.

Regards,
Neil

Oh my! Where oh where do you guys find this stuff?
Post 17 looks like a version of mine. This is beyond what I even considered when I bought this piece. I got it simply because I've heard about them and seen some crude photos but nothing like you guys are showing.
This is so very interesting. Thank you so much for all your input. My head is spinning now.
Nothing like dumb luck on my part.
I didn't buy it for the history that was given for it or whether it was true or not. I just loved the razor.

This is the page from the Jardella book I was referring to FWIW. That was what I had remembered reading about the subject of prisoners. Attachment 123557

edit: not trying to argue for either side, just adding a data point

That is just one persons opinion - an author and collector of razors, not a historian.

We have already discussed that this type of razor appeared in catalogues, so were made by known makers. That doesn't mean that non-razor makers made them, nor does it disprove the POW theory - which after all must have arisen from somewhere.

The mis-spellings have also been alluded to, as well as the spurious countries. FWIW there was a prisoner of war hulk moored off Plymouth, as is etched on the OPs razor. The documentation for that shows it to have come from England - not France, and the article you have cited definitely calls them 'French double blade razors' - so I suppose we have no definitive proof either way!

Regards,
Neil

Another data point on this:

http://theshiveringbeggar.com/wp-con...Republican.png

That ran in the October 5th, 1809 edition of the Savannah Republican out of Savannah, Georgia. That places his move smack in the middle of the Napoleonic wars. There's no way of knowing if he'd been a prisoner, if he went AWOL, was never in the military and just wanted to get out of town, or what. But he ground razors

Mr. Banatre ran the same ad twice, as near as I can tell, a few months apart, and I cannot find any more reference to him. Though Google Books turns up hits on his name in several journals of Southern Colonial art, the journals aren't viewable so I have no way of knowing if it's the same guy or even what the Banatre items were.