Straight razor possibly J. Nowill & Sons

So I have seen this razor before with this marking

Attachment 125550
but not this marking.

Attachment 125551

It appears to be the same just with a dagger added, does anyone information regarding a date?
I would be grateful.

Thanks in advance

Hi Carl,

Well I have seen all the regular Nowill marks, but never with a dagger and a capital S. I have seen John Sellers & Sons mark - a dagger going through a capital S.

There were an awful lot of related Nowills who were cutlers, though, including (but not confined to):

William Nowill b1686, cutler apprenticed to Edward Hobson and thomas Rigby, freeman 1708, D* mark reissued to him in 1708 (last used 1700 by brother Thomas) William was father of
Edward Nowill, cutler, b1720
and Joseph Nowil b1716 d1748, partner of Robert Kippax (Kippax and Nowill, then just Nowill, then Nowill and Kippax), father of
William Nowill
and Thomas Nowill b1747 d1825, Master Cutler 1788 - 1789, apprenticed to fathers partner Robert Kippax, married to Elizabeth Kippax
Joseph Nowill b1782 d 1859 in NY, USA

There was also a Hague & Nowill (Thomas Hague and David Nowill - see below).

So - plenty of scope for an 'alternative' mark, however the d* means after 1708 (it passed to David Nowill in 1764) and the crossed keys mean after 1842, giving a 'not before' date of 1842. John Nowill retired in 1847. And the mystery of the dagger and the 'S' still remains... :)

Regards,
Neil

Thanks Neil

I was pretty confident about it being from the family. Thanks for the extra information!
Do you think the S could mean son?

To be honest, I don't think it refers to 'son' carl - these marks had a habit of being re-distributed (if free at the time) or newly coined as soon as the apprentice gained his Freedom - he was then free to enter his chosen (and approved!) mark in the the Great Book of Marks at the Cutlery Guild. Seein as apprenticeships were quite long - 6 - 7 yrs, sometimes longer - then the young cutler would probably not even have made enough money to have a son, let alone a wife when the mark was granted. The marks continued to be added to, but hardly ever let go during the life of the cutler.

Another off-beat fancy that took my interest is that one of the Nowills was the appointed tax-collector for a district of Sheffield and was answerable to a London Court. There was also a business premises in London, and the old London Cutlers marks all had a dagger in them. But I thought that this was an even more fanciful notion than the link-in with John Sellers!

Regards,
Neil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

To be honest, I don't think it refers to 'son' carl - these marks had a habit of being re-distributed (if free at the time) or newly coined as soon as the apprentice gained his Freedom - he was then free to enter his chosen (and approved!) mark in the the Great Book of Marks at the Cutlery Guild. Seein as apprenticeships were quite long - 6 - 7 yrs, sometimes longer - then the young cutler would probably not even have made enough money to have a son, let alone a wife when the mark was granted. The marks continued to be added to, but hardly ever let go during the life of the cutler.

Another off-beat fancy that took my interest is that one of the Nowills was the appointed tax-collector for a district of Sheffield and was answerable to a London Court. There was also a business premises in London, and the old London Cutlers marks all had a dagger in them. But I thought that this was an even more fanciful notion than the link-in with John Sellers!

Regards,
Neil

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Thanks again Neil!!

Excellent! Thank you for the information. I do love reading more about the historical aspect.